lmao

you're creating strawmans at hyperspeed

1. Are you telling me that a guy wasn't getting as many votes against 8-9 candidates as he was against 1 other candidate? (O'malley doesn't count) Because that is hardly worth mentioning.

2. Yes, they don't f*** with bernie because he poses even the slightest threat to their interests and the interests of their donors. And the DNC being corporate shill. You literally had their donors agonizing over it after his Nevada win lol.

3. No, they haven't so stop lying. This is how bias works; if Bernie had faked black endorsements do you think he would have been asked about it at a debate? If Bernie had a record of being an abusive boss and throwing staplers at staff do you think he would have been asked about it? If he had lied about being Native American all his life, do you think he would have been asked about it? Or if he had a history of supporting segregationists, being anti-abortion, authoring the crime bill, lying about his record on social security and a host of other things, do you think maybe the moderators would have checked him? Hell, just at the last debate, these moderators tried to check him because he had proposed "adjustments" to social security, when they know full well he was talking about adjustments in terms of expansion of benefits, yet they never once fact checked Biden as he lied his way through the debate. This is bias. It's how you manufacture consent. Same way they would commit 20-25 minutes a debate attacking bernie over how he'd pay for his plans despite him outlining it numerous times.

4. See above, and also there's a difference between chris matthews or whoever not liking a candidate and letting their personal feelings get in the way of impartial a***ysis and then presenting their feelings as facts. It's one thing to criticize a candidates policies and then there's comparing him winning a caucus to the fall of france to nazi germany as another anchor calls his supporters a digital brownshirt brigade.

5. And yeah, that's the problem. You can't possibly see why news corporations, politicians bankrolled by billionaires and corporations etc., would be biased and do whatever they can to stop the one candidate who threatens their wealth on even the smallest possible scale (because all bernie is a moderate socdem reformist) from winning any meaningful electoral power. Or maybe you can see that but you just refuse to acknowledge it because it's too idk, inconvenient to you to acknowledge how class and politics interact.

6. Yeah, they care about being republicans in a performative sense because it makes them look good. But the election of trump has led to thinks never being better for some of the corporate stooges at the DNC. Pelosi gets to become a household name doing nothing more than performative resistance while voting for trumps military budgets. Same with dudes like schumer and all these other clowns who won't feel any consequences of an actual trump reelection, but will feel consequences of bernie removing their donors influence in elections. they'd rather have 4 more years of trump than a bernie presidency.

7. Progressives are not socialists. So no, getting progressives elected downballot is not a goal of socialists and there are some socialists who also don't/didn't care about getting bernie elected and there are some who do/did because some believe that at least having a president who would fight for things like universal health care and had a theory of change that was somewhat compatible within some left leaning circles was worth it

But if we're going to talk about electoral politics you need to go ahead right now and inform what meaningful change in this country has risen out of electoral politics. And you're talking about having 0 iq but your whole solution seems to be voting for progressives down ballot, but that also ignores the reality of electoral politics because it 1) assumes there are progressives running in every race and 2) that progressives are positioned to win in every race they run. you know neither of those things is true so you are being factitious at best and simply offering up some false solution while for some reason insinuating that progressives and socialists share the same goals (we don't).

And it's almost as if there's a history of political elites "plotting" against those who have any semblance of solidarity with the working class. one of us is operating in reality and it's not you, if you think otherwise. Also, you seem to be confused about revolution. it isn't started by one person running in and shooting up a town hall or saying "its time for revolution," no, it doesn't work like that.

Damn you sound like a little f***ing b****.

No the voters are not just all registered democrats but for someone who's been complaining about my lack of understanding about elections and electoral politics on end it is kinda ironic to see that you don't understand that some states have open primaries where literally you can vote while being registered independent or republican

its like you refuse to believe the role institutions play in influencing voters and rigging elections and suppressing other voters.

and again you can save me the s*** about knowing electoral politics because if youre asking why didn't bernie run independent i gotta think its you who lacks a complete understanding of the facts of the system. but again, look at the steps they went to in order to make sure someone proposing modest reforms didn't win. imagine what they'd do with an honest to god socialist.

some of us are just aware enough of reality to realize electoral politics is not an efficient method of enacting change.

When dude replied "You do realize that Bernie was endorsed by the NRA when he ran for office in Vermont" as a response to me talking about how Bernie is probably the first candidate some people have seen who isn't able to be bought and isn't two-faced, I pretty much knew there was no point in ever getting into a real debate with dude lol.

The average voter in the Dem primary is most likely a constituent of the Democratic party. No s*** open primaries exist and so do modified ones.
The vast majority of voters in the democratic primary are democrats. Hence why SC which had an open primary had Biden vastly BTFO of Bernie. The SC primary will look vastly different to the SC general because their wont just be primarily black democrats voting

This is a very stupid attempt at a gotcha

He quite literally was endorsed by the NRA. Lmao, why are you on his d*** so hard

Thats exactly how you aound when I read your dumbass posts

Meaningful change via electoral politics? Literally depends on what you mean by meaningful change. Getting millions of people universal healthcare coverage is literally something you can only do via legislation.

Is universal healthcare not meaningful change???

Being facetious how? Progressives should either run or vote down ballot for people who agree with their views point blank. You have no choice but to mobilize and form a base capable of tackling the issues at hand. Otherwise you sound like a crybaby little b**** who cant do anything to move the political compass

Bro, Im ignoring your dumb commie larping not because its objectively wrong but because its f***ing irrelevant. No one is even talking about running as an open socialist which isnt even a smart thing to do in America after 2 red scares. Im talking about running on socialist policies. Hide your power level instead of abashedly sucking Cuba's d*** on national TV like Bernie does.
Im not going to discuss moronic garbage from a class based lens to explain why Bernie lost the primary. Its an unnecessary reach, f*** outta here with that.

Elaborate on that fam. Give the actual context behind the NRA endorsement. I’m all ears.

That literally depends on what you describe as meaningful change lmao.

I said why didnt he run as an independent because of his campaigns inability to build coalitions. You cannot run in a party campaign without either forming a coalition or by hijacking the entire electorate

What change are you actually talking about instead of being vague. You are literally just veighing for some vague notion of "meaningful" change that I know once you spout is going to be some wild next level marxist lennist, maoist, etc tankie s*** that isnt wven remotely feasible.

Also maybe dont run as a literal unavowed socialist in America. Do you think Racist Republicans tag themselves as racists when they run in elections???

Its literally about hiding disfavorable aspects to the electorate so you can win

Also you cant even describe the steps that the DNC themselves took in any meaningful way. Youre just spouting literal assumptiond you have that fit into your myopic world view

Thats literally it. The NRA endorsed him over his competitor because Bernie was more lax on guns. Its nothing insidious, its just to illustrate that companies, individuals, etc endorse whoever they want and usually more often then not. Its less about being bought by corporations and moreso that these people lean a certain way initially.

Like if I wanted to dog on Bernie, I would mention dumping nuclear waste in poor hispanic communities. Etc etc, all im saying is thst youre giving 1 sole person too much credence. All politicians are kind of ass. Bernie included

The revolution will NEVER happen because the working class has had over 100 years to see the wonders of socialism yet are still voting republican or moderate democrat. The only people actually interested in a revolution are soft internet thugs who don’t have popular support or the testicles to actually fight against the government in the first place

1. It is worth mentioning when those 8 or 9 candidates drop and you fail to gain the support of their voters. Or if in fact their voters have an ideological bent away from you and your pplicies. In fact Bernies campaign ran with the hopes that everyone else would stay in so he could coast of 30 percent of the electorate vote
2. They dont f*** with him for quite obvious reasons. The fact you keep having to start writing your own head canon for why they dont f*** with Bernie who s***s on them constantly is some next level. Yes the donors are upset, because the DNC is a fundraising organization and winning the DNC among other things gives you control of their assets... so yes, I can see why long running democrats would be upset someone who isnt actually a part pf their boys club would be winning.
3. Klobuchar throwing staplers wasnt at all pertinent to anything and was brought up during the NYTimes editoral review session. Bringing that up is like bringing up Bernie's rape essay out of the blue. Or him posing with the Sandinistas, etc etc.

The crime bill had 2/3rds of the support of the black congressional caucus and Bernie voted for it.

Biden didnt lie sbout his record on social security. Fact checkers dont even support Bernies statements so I have no idea what your argument is. Biden was talking about negotiations with everything on the table and talked a freeze in order to balance the budget. Bernie is being hyperbolic and obfuscating facts

The last debate was a town hall style debate and the moderators didnt check anyone whatsoever. They let them talk amongst each other and it was probably the best debate format we've ever had.

Bernie does not explain how he's paying for plans lmao. Half of his budget is literally unaccounted for and it gets mentioned because its relevant

4. Chris Matthews did this twice. Once with Hillary in which he had to apologize, and the 2nd with Bernie. Now he's fired persona non grata. When your a fringe candidate, its to be expected that on average lifelong democrats on mainstream media dont like you especially when you have a rabid base online and you attack everyone else but your supporters at every step.

Also here come the manufacturing consent posters 🙄Like can you guys talk without bothering Chomsky and mentioning the one piece of media you've read by him.

5. Uh, I can see why corps would be biased. I dont see why I need to sit down, throw my entire life away. And submit to a class based lens out of the blue because commies are class reductionist. Its an utter waste of my time. Commies are just lazy and refuse to actually a***yze things. The average person doesnt inherently think about class in 90 percent of their daily life.

6. They care about republicans because both parties only exist for political power
Pelosi is a household name because shes the best Democratic leader that we've ever had. You dont understand thst because you dont exist in the real world. You know even Biden has voted to keep money out of elections??

Like are you commies generally braindead. Pelosi's husband is a businessman. She doesnt need to survive off donor money. This is all just heresay from some tinfoil hat wearing dude on the street

7. Then socialists should f*** off back to being politically ineffective.
Almost every dem ran on universal healthcare. Whats your point, that wasnt a Bernie exclusive. He's just running on single payer UHC

Lol his is exactly why I asked you to elaborate.

The NRA didn't endorse him because he was "lax on guns", they quite literally endorsed him because the Republican candidate who won and beat Bernie 2 years prior to that, changed his mind on gun policies. The NRA basically felt double-crossed, so they endorsed Bernie 2 years later to get him out of there.

The CEO of the NRA even said himself it wasn't even about Bernie or the Other guy, it was about honesty

washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-nra-helped-put-bernie-sanders-in-congress/2015/07/19/ed1be26c-2bfe-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html

This basically, Synopsis is too stupid to realize that.

And thats why everyone hates Commie larpers. Back in the old days an Anarchist would at least blow up a building or something...

Even today republicans post up with guns on farms against the fed. But commies sit at home being lazy... posting dumb s*** all the time.

Commies do 0 effectual organizing, volunteering, etc etc to help their communities. Just sit down online and post dumb s***. Jeez

What meaningful pplicies get passed via legislation...
Idk bro I guess healthcare coverage overt climate change policies arent important enough. Since in anarcho commie world, you can just open your own backdoor health clinic in the comfort of your gestapo and insure everyone gets free coverage.
Same with climate change, we wont have industries. We'll have farms and small artisan shops thst make industrial goods by hand

Thats fine but it doesn't really change my point.

Which was that people endorse you for whatever reason.

I will admit to being wrong but again it didn't really matter the reason since they helped him get elected regardless. If I was to post like you or Synopsis I could immediately just make a trend of Bernie being lax on gun control and dial it back to him being supported by the NRA. But I won't because thats kind of a scummy thing to do. Bernie is a grown man and he has his own reasons for voting how he does on gun control policy irrespective of the NRA. And no, that isn't to say companies or lobbyist have no input in the voting policy of some people but that your overstating it when you say "Corporation bought". Things are much more complex than you depict them to be

Also Bernie is definitely lax on gun control anyway at least compared to his contemporaries running in this election.

Idrc much about it

Western communists since 1917 have generally been losers, but the communists in actual communist countries have mostly been either actual working people or military personnel that launched coups expecting the backing of a superpower. Seeing as the working class in America sees more benefits under capitalism than a soviet style command economy, and the current US military is the most powerful force in the world, there’s no reason for a revolution to happen here, nor is there a desire. Yet delusional internet communists continue to insist that global communism is coming, despite it dying in 1991 and being mostly rejected even in the third world where its supposed to be the most appealing

Yeah its pretty obvious the petty bourgeoisie like Synopsis who inherently benefit of the marginalization of 3rd world countries is just larping.

They know they arent going out of their way to merc Billionaires or the corrupt politicians so they just LARP online about eventual revolutions while crying about being bullied by life all day.

These guys are waiting for some sleeper class consciousness in America when Kanye stans cant even decide if Yeezus is a good album.

Like Bernie at least ran for office in order to have some impact on peoples lives lmao. Even Eugene Debbs ran for office several times because its a good way to either impact of destigmatize a movement or people in American politics.

All internet commies do is b**** and whine lmao. People would hate them less if they hid their power level and just ran for a senate seat or a house seat or anything instead of moral grandstanding online about s*** theyre unwilling to change.

Thats whats so amazing about people like Greta or Bernie or anyone else who gets outside and sets their mind to a goal. You can either b**** online all day or you can actually attempt to spread a message or be a vehicle for a shift in culture or the political landscape.

Bernie was getting the DNC to change policies on super delegates 😂. Someone like Synopsis could never do that. They would tell him to f*** off back to Twitter

Dude could barely moderate a KTT section. That nigga is just unlikeable and incapable of working with people in irl situations

Also I have no idea why so often Commie or Socialist posters, yield to a class reductionist view when talking about the intent of normal individuals.

Joe "Ride the Amtrak to visit my dying Wife One a Week" Biden is not sitting in a corner thinking about dialectical materialism and how he can f*** over the entire working class. His voting record wouldn't even support that.
No one thinks like this, people don't have such clear cut super villain motives. And if Synopsis was self aware he would have just said they feed into a system that does "blah blah blah".

Instead Synopsis responds to me saying "Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Warren, etc want to be president because they have their own intentions, motives, and way of enacting policy" with
Synopsis: Yeah, they intend to f*** over the working class while keeping that sweet sweet donor money Like this is why communist online are incapable of enacting policy. No one f***ing talks like this. If you've ever read a personal statement, people do not act like this. If you've ever had an interview or talked to someone going for a profession at college, people do not talk like this.

However the problem is every commie thinks they've unlocked the matrix to behavioral psychology so they keep spouting everything from the perspective of a class based lens as if Marxism/Maoism/etc is some hard truth scientifically verified theory. Instead of pseudoscience with a bunch of ad hoc justifications

This entire convo, I was trying really hard to not just use ableist slurs because I swore Synopsis had a social learning disability by how unwilling he was to realize that you cannot just easily categorize individuals into nice mesh Corporate shill boxes.

I feel like half the Bernie conversation is just political neophytes not understanding that not everything is a conspiracy and that just having more name recognition or knowing enough communities is enough to enable you to win a popularity contest election that spans the entire nation.

It's not like voting is something reserved for the intelligentsia lmao.
Literally everyone and their mom showed up to Selma on bloody Sunday... but Bernie

Yeah idk, Socialist would just rather live in make believe instead of a***yzing events critically

Internet communists rely on the worldview that the billionaire class controls the politicians of the west to keep the world in poverty in order to maintain their wealth. Even though this conspiracy theory can be been proven wrong and a communist government wouldn’t actually bring the third world out of poverty, they continue to claim that their cause is just. The worst part is, they’re so consumed by their own nonsense they believe anyone who doesn’t agree with them is evil, an idiot, or both

Yeah thats the problem. People like to think they're exempt from their own cognitive biases as if only they and their ingroup is special.

This democratic primary had literal Billionaires and all of them got BTFO despite spending vast amounts of money.

Now that Synopsis can't use the "Money can't buy every election" dialogue tree, he moves on to "The DNC helped Biden win" despite the DNC being split amongst a myriad of candidates.

He even insinuated that the DNC planned to have such a large field of candidates to spite Bernie?? Despite all of those candidates splitting the vote amongst Biden while Bernie himself was enamored by the prospects that he could win a plurality due to a divided field with only 30 percent of the electorate behind him.

All of these comments are just so conspiratorial. They're Qanon level takes that just sound sensible.

I'm not even saying you can't buy an election, buy a candidate, or that the DNC may not in some future actually be able to interfere in State run elections (In a significant fashion). What I'm saying is that you can't just apply this as a heuristic because it's just an insane and paranoid line of logic you can use to justify anything.

It's like listening to a paranoid schizophrenic ushering out delusions of persecution.