A lot more of this than is made public has been coordinated between Russia and China, I wouldn't be surprised if China lowkey encouraged Russia to do this while outwardly presenting their usual position of non-interference, knowing how much it would benefit them.

This is especially true when it comes to anything related to politics and especially international politics. So much of it is informed by ideological presuppositions but presented to the public as "neutral expert a***yses", which only makes it more ideological word to Slavoj.

Whenever I read a Reuters article with sum like "geopolitical a***ysists say..." I hit the jordanlaff irl

I hate to sound all conspiracy theorist, but I'm still convinced this is all about destabilizing the dollar and Russia/China and other parties beginning to utilize an alternative monetary system... breaking away from Western hegemony. China even told Russia not to attack during the Olympics. There are bigger plans at play here.

Not sure if it will destabilize the dollar, but if we're gonna speculate and everything goes how I would imagine China would hope it does, this could be the death of the vision of a unipolar world that Americans had with the dissolution of the USSR.

To add to this, on the same day that Russia gave the US security proposals for Europe that would be legally binding, Putin and Xi had a virtual summit and Xi expressed support for those proposals

kashmirobserver.net/2021/12/15/putin-xi-hail-russia-china-relations-as-better-than-alliance/amp

"The Chinese president “said that although they are not allied, their effectiveness even exceeds this level,” said Russian foreign policy aide Yuri Ushakov on Wednesday.

“Such a figurative expression very accurately reflects the essence of what is happening now in relations between our two countries.” Ushakov said Xi had offered support to Putin for his push to obtain binding security guarantees for Russia from the West.

According to the Russian official, the pair also expressed their "negative view" of the creation of new military alliances known as the AUKUS between Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States. They also criticized the Indo-Pacific "Quad" of Australia, India, Japan and the United States. The partnerships, according to the pair, undermine the foundations of nuclear non-proliferation in the region, Ushakov said.

Calling Putin an “old friend,” Xi said the Russian leader had “firmly supported China in defending its core interests and opposed attempts to divide China and Russia,” according to Chinese official broadcaster CCTV. Xi also said he was willing to roll out new plans for cooperation in various areas with Moscow.

“China and Russia should increase their joint efforts to more effectively safeguard the security interests of both parties,” Xi said.

The high-level dialog was held a week after Putin spoke to US President Joe Biden, during which Biden warned Russia against invading Ukraine, an allegation Moscow has repeatedly denied. Putin also set out his demand for security pledges during the talks with Biden.

The Russian leader briefed Xi on his conversation with the US president, according to the Kremlin. Putin also said he looked forward to meeting Xi at the Winter Olympics in Beijing in February. Last week, the White House said it would boycott the games."

This part has me dying tho

"Putin also said he looked forward to meeting Xi at the Winter Olympics in Beijing in February. Last week, the White House said it would boycott the games."

@krishna_bound ik u been saying China fumbled this but I don't think so tbh, their somewhat contradictory rhetoric at the beginning is not that significant to what this will eventually mean for them in the big picture

Putins approval rating is high. It always been. When he annexed Crimea in 2014 he even gained popularity. So it is shown they don't mind taking land from Ukraine. Not all Russians are as innocent as you think they are. I guess you're American, so to make it easy for you:

Many of them are like Republicans. Conservative nationalists who love his 'strong white male' leadership. We don't know how all Russians think of this war. We only see the thousands protesting. Not millions of Russians tho. I actually hope it's because they're scared of the repressive state apparatus and not cause they agree with Putin, but we honestly don't know.

Like i said, sanctions are a way to put pressure on his leadership. It is known that economic performance is an important reason for Russians to keep supporting Putin. After the economic collapse of the Soviet Union, his popularity mostly came from economic recovery

When have sanctions worked? People point to South Africa but there was literally a popular insurgency that was designated as terrorists domestically and even in the US, there is no such thing in Russia.

It's a desperate move to make it seem like they're doing something, they're even banning Russian cats At this point it's obvious this can't be justified as some super well calculated move with the goal of undermining Putin's power

I'm not saying it's calculated or that it will work. I'm saying that's what they're trying to do, because they can't do anything else. Military intervention means World War III as you know. You can keep saying they shouldn't sanction Russia, but what else can they do?

Change the course with regards to NATO which is why this happened in the first place

Like i said many times before, Ukraine can't even become a member of NATO as long as there is conflict in Lunask/Donetsk and because of the annexation of Crimea. We all know this, including Putin. You know that too. I doubt it will make any differrence, but they can try it. Ukraine already wants to talk on neutrality.

We should know by now that's not the only thing Putin wants tho. So i doubt it will work

I mean the US knew way back in 2008 already lol you seen what the ambassador.

And doesn't really matter if it's realistic or not (Spain and Portugal also joined without technically fitting the procedural standards but that's besides the point), the US knew it was a red line for Russia. Of course Putin could very well have his own imperialist ambitions, but let's say his motive has absolutely nothing to do with NATO, even in that case it at least wouldn't have given him a casus belli to justify this war to his people. Why not call his bluff? What do we have to lose?

the fact that the West hasn't taken this approach and actively paints it as "Russian propaganda" makes me think the West is not really interested in de-escalation, or at least the US isn't and Euros have been Marshallcucked into following the US line

They actually should offer NATO membership to Russia.. they always wanted to be part of it

Lmao honestly why not tho, even Putin was like yeah Ukraine can get in if we can too, poor Ruskies feeling left out

I don't necessarily think China has come out terrible on this, but I do still think they've fumbled their response and continue to, because they obviously see the economic opportunity but at the same time clearly don't want to be perceived as actually aiding russia. Doing stuff like expanding UnionPay into Russia is a win, but at the same time as the state bank essentially quasi-sanctioning Russian commodities? Obviously there is a level of economic benefit to China, but i don't think any of it is actually China's doing, it's more a result of America's terrible decisions and thus falling into China's lap. The fact they've even gone through the public hoops of differentiating the situation from their own and Taiwan says enough at least to me personally about the actual government's rhetoric on it.

Americans lmaoo

To what extent is everything in this calculated by the US and to what extent did they get high on their own supply of propaganda and are fully operating under ideology and unironically all up in arms about the RULES BASED INTERNATIONAL ORDER being violated? I wish I could get in these mfs head fr

I don’t think as much is calculated as you’d probably think. It’s also why the “everything is a CIA plot” stuff kinda falls through. At any given point you of course malevolent parties acting on multiple intersecting on points of tension at the same time, but how much of that is ultimately realized is up in the air and more dependent on tons of factors and actions at once. I think in the nascency of agencies it was easier for them to be omnipresent and focused, but currently it’s just like powers that be have tendrils everywhere which often intersect and nullify themselves in a tangled mess. I think honestly yeah a lot of stuff in government and media and the like really does happen because people believe things or at least are delusional enough to think they do. Which is a lot harder to try to think about how to then counteract than if they were just arbitrarily malevolent

So America & Israel are the only ones who can invade and bomb countries without having any sanctions on em?