ARCADE GOON

5y

Tell me how abundance will be achieved under capitalism when private companies have no interest in investing in f***ing fusion energy or any other technology that takes decades to pan out.

The Tokamak design was made in the Soviet Union in the 50s and ITER was started on behest of the Soviet Union

And no, the technologies for abundance are not in f***ing place and will need massive investments for them to be viable. Shipping is still dependent on oil and propeller designs haven't made a serious dent yet, liquid hydrogen is barely viable for airplanes, most countries still depend on petroleum for automobiles, we depend on lithium for batteries should we decide to electrify our vehicles, our buildings are mostly from concrete and steel which isn't exactly CO2-friendly, our agriculture is unsustainable, our soil is degrading, we haven't figured out any carbon capture and storage mechanisms, we still can't desalinate ocean water on a massive scale and so on. If you're gonna wait for private firms to start innovating here using market mechanisms and NOT planning mechanisms we'll all be dead by then

You have some bullshit utopian vision that from today to tomorrow, somehow all of the bourgeois powers will decide that climate change is an urgent issue and massively invest into these technologies because it will be "futurist".

Keep crying about Marxists, because I'm sure the capitalists will help you with post-scarcity

coltrup

5y

as i said, im not going to respond to the content of this post. especially because your misunderstanding of modern technological trends and how they relate to scarcity is palpable.

what I want to clarify is that nothing i said is in support of capitalism.

i dont want to be typecast incorrectly when i talk about things ... have a good one fam

ARCADE GOON

5y

you're f***ing delusional if you think our current modern technological trends will allow us to survive climate collapse without a huge drop in living standards, or if you think that somehow we can't solve these things without entire states pouring all of their resources into it in a planned manner rather than relying on some LARP 3D printing hackathons, or expecting the capitalist mode of the economy to magically turn into whatever you imagine to be "futurist"

ARCADE GOON

5y

you're f***ing delusional if you think our current modern technological trends will allow us to survive climate collapse without a huge drop in living standards, or if you think that somehow we can't solve these things without entire states pouring all of their resources into it in a planned manner rather than relying on some LARP 3D printing hackathons, or expecting the capitalist mode of the economy to magically turn into whatever you imagine to be "futurist"

coltrup

5y

you're incredibly tiring. its not a question of "if" or "when" ... it's either post-scarcity or Mad Max. resource extraction that maintains industrial living standards is mutually exclusive with ecological sustainability, no matter how well you allocate goods. we've already been over this.

again, im done here. the purpose of that last post was to clarify that im not a supporter of capitalism. dont quote me if you're just going to rehash the same tired old arguments

ARCADE GOON

5y

"resource extraction that maintains industrial living standards is mutually exclusive with ecological sustainability,"

no it is not, it is only that way because capitalist firms dominate R&D and cannot develop technologies that need 50 years of research like states are trying with fusion energy because they operate on short-term profits and not long-term use, which is literally one of the main tenets of marxism

coltrup

5y

lol if your entire point boils down to "well, we can't reach post scarcity technologies like fusion without a change in economic organization" then you're hardly disagreeing with me.

im amenable to the idea that such change requires some additional political intervention.

the claim i made is that political change INDEPENDENT of such technologies will never escape climate collapse, as long as it is mired in industrial infrastructure and extractive methods.

again, open to a future discussion on how this kind of a transition could come about ..

ARCADE GOON

5y

and yet you talk about how "i never read a book in this century" and so, just spouting anti-marxist drivel. there is no socialist who doesn't advocate for ecosocialism, nowhere does the term "planned economy" imply that this system cannot be planned with ecology in mind, idk what type of stupid propaganda you believe

ARCADE GOON

5y

marx literally has a small essay about scarcity and automation and this guy is hating on him acting like some mccarthyist chud

http://thenewobjectivity.com/pdf/marx.pdf

rnb sponge

5y

Mccarthyist chud though? lmaoooo bruh what?

rnb sponge

5y

stupid thing is i bet yall agree on like 90% of what you're saying u just heated in an argument

coltrup

5y

its crazy because my ideas about the future are at least partially inspired by marx's writings on automation and paul masons a***ysis of it. i have no fundamental disagreement with marxism, just little ones

hes just mad because i called him a dusthead

ARCADE GOON

5y

you read "central planning" and went on this weird anti-USSR anti-Marx "read
a book from this century" trip, f*** out of here you radlib

ARCADE GOON

5y

it's literally on wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity_economy#Marxism

"Marx's concept of a post-capitalist communist society involves the free distribution of goods made possible by the abundance provided by automation. The fully developed communist economic system is postulated to develop from a preceding socialist system. Marx held the view that socialism—a system based on social ownership of the means of production—would enable progress toward the development of fully developed communism by further advancing productive technology. Under socialism, with its increasing levels of automation, an increasing proportion of goods would be distributed freely."

"Marx did not believe in the elimination of most physical labor through technological advancements alone in a capitalist society, because he believed capitalism contained within it certain tendencies which countered increasing automation and prevented it from developing beyond a limited point, so that manual industrial labor could not be eliminated until the overthrow of capitalism"

rEaD a bOok FroM thIs CenTurY