Niggas on here know, niggas pick and choose when to make or a big deal depending on how they feel about the artist

Another CLASSIC record

The GOAT

SZA barely writes her own music troll

He doesn’t help himself when reference tracks pop out the blew damn need every year.

Bullshit

Have you ever heard a drake reference without him adding and changing stuff?

Kendrick has done this before and there's nothing wrong with it lol. This is very common practice when making music. Producers a lot of times aren't solely just beatmakers

Any evidence on Luther being a SZA song kendrick being basically plugged in?

Might not count as a “reference” track but his verse on Since Way Back is identical to Party’s original verse that leaked last year

Also him changing or adding anything doesn’t negate the use of writers nor does it have anything to do with my point

anybody that is under the illusion that music is anything but an intensely collaborative process is lowk an idiot

& almost all the true advancements and evolutions in hip-hop as a genre have come from collaboration on both sides of the publishing, lyrics and music

Elkan like the phone charger?

Your brain is cooked bro

I’m not one of those people, what I’m saying is Drake doesn’t do himself any favors killing the narrative that he doesn’t write by unfortunately having so many of his joints leaked.

In hip hop as much as some fans have grown to overlook having writers or even having the skill to actually write ya own s*** and simply be nice. it’s still a “stain” on those who want or are placed in the “GOAT” list. And that’ll never change no matter how much fans of artists like Drake want it to.

Drake is most likely at that stage where he doesn’t give a f*** about that and he probably shouldn’t, but we are speaking from a fan stand point and that s*** will never come off his jacket.

Whose alt?

No facts just vibes describes alll of 2024

I may be putting on my drake cape here, and most won't see it this way,

But very few rappers challenge themselves the way that Drake does.

The 'reference' tracks are 1) never full fledged songs and 2) never the straight rap records, or the straight r&b records.

They're almost exclusively the records where there's a new tone, a new flow, a new cadence or bounce to them. That isn't a coincidence.

What I'm getting at is...Yes, in traditional rap as you're alluding to, reference tracks or whatever will never be tolerated but drake isn't a traditional rapper and no one pushes boundaries on flows cadence and rhythm quite like Drake.

If all drake had to do was deliver 16's and 24's you'd never hear a reference track.

The reference track thing also falls on deaf ears for me because he literally makes reference tracks and writes for other rappers and singers.

He's a literal writer so like, idk it truly feels like people are gasping at straws with the ghostwriting thing because of that.

The reality is that sometimes it's collaborative, sometimes it's not.

Sometimes you hear a beat and it just comes to you and you knock it out in 10 minutes.

Other times you're working with someone(s) and building the record up. There's no one way to make a song, and writing with someone or even having someone write for you, does not mean that you can't or don't write yourself.

It's like people play stupid when it comes to drake's pen.

the problem with the stigma ab all these niggas writing their own s*** 100% is that it's just always been a lie

i can appreciate that bc there was so many degrees of separation between the process and the audience for so long that ppl still don't even understand how much of lie it is, but it certainly is a lie

~90% of pop artists don’t write 100% of their own music.

Early drafts of songs move up a steep ladder of industry folk before being presented to major artists. Tons of tracks get passed around to different people before landing on someone with the right fit. The process is widely known in LA and it’s a lot of folks out here writing songs hoping it passes through the filter and lands in the right hands. It’s why everyone here tries to network like a mfer

That exact method is what was supposed to differentiate a real hip-hop artist from the rest of the genres

Even in hip-hop it’s fairly common for hooks to be given to the artist from the producer or 3rd party

The one thing in rap music that’s sacred and should only be touched by the main artist are the verses-bare minimum

I disagree with your first point only because truth be told we don’t know all of the songs he’s had help in, I wanna believe his straight rap records are him yeah but I really do t knows Can’t even say the r&b records because I literally have a R&B verse from him he def didn’t write lol albeit he’s also wrote for Party so this would play into the point you made later

Him having a history of writing for others is the best argument for the having writers stain imo I don’t think Drake should be chastised for having help especially at the level he is on stardom wise, Pop stars reach out to those below them for inspiration all the time. But I don’t think people are in the wrong for looking at him with an asterisk in mind.

Most of the niggas that we acknowledge use writers we put in a whole separate category, maybe also because some of them are also producers or “execs” who also rap from time to time. But it’s always gonna be received differently when the leaks are from actual emcees. Same way it’s received different when we hear those emcees bite swag.

At the end of the day in all for the music, in 2025 it’s not a big deal for me but I respect it if the rappers feel differently.

Nas, Cube, Snoop all performed VERSES others wrote for them. Real hiphop is a fantasy

1. Humble

2. One of those SZA/Kendrick hits is All the Stars and Kendrick wrote SZA's parts on that