Elric

4y

You're so weird about Fats Elvis himself called him the king of rock and roll I know he's got alotta boogie woogie to his music and leans heavily into the roll half of rock and roll but you need to slightly readjust your internal labeling cause that's very much what rock was then. So many of Fats songs could easily have Richard singing on them instead and indeed I think they shared Bartholomews band alotta the time.

Koala

4y

Dude this gotta be you in de van :datass:

rvi

4y

i dont care what elvis said especially considering his understanding of the labels was different from us. + you can be a father of a genre without being fully in the genre itself

if all Fats is a full on rock and roll artist then there is no distinction between 40s-50s R&B and rock and roll. some rock and roll songs but the % is not high enough for me to rank with the others. if Little Richard sang on it with that much more intensity and it had more energy I think it would be rock. but we cant just say "if it had these additional key elements of rock it would be rock, so lets say its rock anyway"

and Id definitely consider Little richard 100% both of those genres in almost every song tbh

some days im almost in the camp of considering 50s rock and roll as a subset of rhythm and blues as opposed to the overarching "rock" that developed in the 60s but thats just too much rewriting of the historical label

Elric

4y

im leaning more toward calling the especially fast Louis Jordan songs the earliest rock and roll considering how similar Fats, Richard and Chuck were to him alot of the time.

The deciding factor isn't musical as much as it is social for me; Louis Jordan was one of the first black performers with crossover success on the white charts but still played for segregated audiences when the country was still reeling from the ww2. Fats and the rest were able to tap into the prosperity and optimism of the 50s and play to desegregated audiences that regularly ended up in literal riots cause even what Fats was playing was insane at the time.

rvi

4y

thats cool but deciding factor in what i call a genre is always gonna be musical or at least scene-related. which i think there is a better argument for Fats being on R&B side anyway and if you value the musicians quotes that much "What they call rock 'n' roll now is rhythm and blues. I've been playing it for 15 years in New Orleans". and new orleans R&B scene was an important movement with its own legacy . outside of the regional scene (because genre is regional-related a lot of the time) i dont see any value in including nonmusical stuff in genre discussions. dont care how rowdy the crowds were, that shouldnt be exclusive to rock

something about calling all of that stuff rock and roll feels like im erasing the legacy of early rhythm and blues as its distinct thing that split off into different directions as well and just saying its the earliest rock and deeming the rock connection the most important thing

rvi

4y

thats cool but deciding factor in what i call a genre is always gonna be musical or at least scene-related. which i think there is a better argument for Fats being on R&B side anyway and if you value the musicians quotes that much "What they call rock 'n' roll now is rhythm and blues. I've been playing it for 15 years in New Orleans". and new orleans R&B scene was an important movement with its own legacy . outside of the regional scene (because genre is regional-related a lot of the time) i dont see any value in including nonmusical stuff in genre discussions. dont care how rowdy the crowds were, that shouldnt be exclusive to rock

something about calling all of that stuff rock and roll feels like im erasing the legacy of early rhythm and blues as its distinct thing that split off into different directions as well and just saying its the earliest rock and deeming the rock connection the most important thing

Elric

4y

Wym scene-related exactly?

Koala

4y

I gotta peep this album yo

lucid

4y

new archers album soon @RVI

drjdeponytail

4y

They had a great run of albums in the 2000s. Warm folk rock with a slight emo influence

rvi

4y

the way that some genres are very closely tied to the distinct sound that developed in a specific area/city. with a lot of the musicians closely associating a lot of the time, or playing the same venues and stuff like that.

like how you can't fully separate Grunge from the Seattle scene even tho there can be grunge that wasn't from there. sometimes that genre label isn't applying strictly to the music but a combination of music and location which resulted in that movement

new orleans R&B seems to be a distinct and fruitful one with the key people like Toussaint, Fats, Professor Longhair

Koala

4y

Yea I heard a later album that was cool but this one hits harder..

If they did a split with Pygmy

Elric

4y

Yeah and when Bumps Blackwell took Richard down to New Orleans and sat him down in front of Fats' band he found his groove I'd call that a scene

Another scene was Elvis, Carl, Jerry Lee and the all the rockabilly boys' at Sun

Another scene was Bo and Chuck and the boys up in Chicago at Chess

Buddy and the Everlys coming from the Ole Opry country scene

All these scenes had different roots but together made up the first rock and roll generation don't think it's erasing any legacy to call it such

rvi

4y

yeah i just saw that earlier

rvi

4y

man you go so hard on the musicians you have a personal bone to pick against did he really prove it to everyone when barely anyone knows who Green is while Clapton kept dropping a bunch of platinum albums? if Green was the one who shattered Clapton's legend then Hendrix must have personally murdered him 10 times over or something

not knocking Green at all ofc its just we both know what happened to him once the 70s hit sadly and i got no desire to check out Clapton's commercial peak stuff anytime soon :vom:

lucid

4y

you hear that single

idk how to feel about it for sure. it’s a completely different sound

Elric

4y

I don't care if Clapton plays better cause I'm not a musian and I fell in love with Peter because of the overwhelming warmth and humanity (and sexiness) in his music. His aura is just

Clapton is a slick player but also a calculating opportunist and shallow racist b****** and it comes through in his music he doesn't have any of those required melodic ballads that move me like my goats do. Weak tunesmith boring character.

rvi

4y

dont think its any legacy erasing what youre doing, but imagine if the term "new orleans r&b" died out among general music publications etc. in favor of including it all under the rock umbrella. then it would start to feel like that.

do you consider Little Richard to be rhythm and blues as well as rock like I do? just wondering. and that part about the connection with him and new orleans kinda just seems like more reason to call Richard R&B than call those other guys rock. Richard was like the direct midpoint for me and the most emblematic of the close connection between the two

and if you take into account Little Richard's lesser later known stuff i'd think more of his catalog total is R&B than rock...

Fella

4y

I’m gonna become a Clapton head to even out the hate