Elric

3y

I agree with what RVI said

By Blonde he was for sure crafting the most masterful albums of a certain vibe/intent, but I don't think he was overthinking what his albums each meant as Big Statements. It was achieved through a cumulative effect as he piles on couplet after couplet of fascinating poetry in song after song when everybody else was happy singing SHE LOVES YOU YEAH YEAH YEAH (which was fine).

His biggest, most influential achievement is just blowing the doors wide open for the vocabulary of all music. Everybody from Sam Cook to Joni to the Beatles heard his words and realized the lyrical box they had been trapped with was now gone. Sam heard Blowin In The Wind and literally asked himself why am just singing about romance and heartbreak when this white boy is out here doing this

"upon hearing Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind" in 1963, Cooke was greatly moved that such a poignant song about racism in America could come from someone who was not black, and was also ashamed he had not yet written something like that himself."

And then he immediately wrote A Change Is Gonna Come and we know how influential that was to the rest of soul music in general. Folk rock wouldn't have happened if The Byrds didn't cover Mr Tambourine man. Psychedelic rock wouldn't have happened without that song either. The Band wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for The Basement Tapes and they shifted the entire culture. The list goes on and on.

Elric

3y

Orbison doing Willy Nelson

Very Based

3y

· edited

I'm glad you mentioned 'Blowin In The Wind' because even though that album is far from perfect, there are some of his greatest songs on it and that's sort of what I'm gesturing at with the later albums, because I consider the songs, even some on Freewheelin, as a completely different way of making music, to reiterate what you said, he changed the musical grammar and in a way created new musical language; Sad Eyed Lady of The Lowlands, (like The End by Jim Morrison) there was nothing (with my limited knowledge of the time period) like that that had been released prior, his lyrical prose, poetic sensibilities, creative expression, mythological persona, complex themes, biblical and literary references (a la Doors), a new vocabulary which as you say "(blew) the door wide open" for artists of the time. For me this is all found in those songs from 1963-1966. Perhaps the "album" doesn't support my thesis as well as I thought, by I still stand by "it" as retaining a, to overuse the word once again, cohesiveness in a way albums prior perhaps didn't achieve to nearly the same extent.

I hate to use quote but...

"Music journalist Gary Graff points to Highway 61 Revisited and Blonde on Blonde.....as possible starting points to the album era, as they each constituted "a cohesive and conceptual body of work rather than just some hit singles... with filler tracks."

The Beatles may have taken this a step further but that is really all I was getting at.

Also to @RVI 's point about separating Jazz from the popular (rock/folk/etc.) music of the time, preceding or co-existing and therefore influencing it, I'm in no way denying that, I was just separating them for the sake of my original post, which was a semantic discernment. Obviously classical highly influenced Jazz and Jazz remained an influence to much of the music of that time. All I was really trying to do was give a proper definition of "popular" music as meaning music that wasn't jazz or classical, a little bit reductionist but hey..., because i know the traditional meaning of the term can be confused with the modern definition.

Elric

3y

Guess this finally the year this gets added to my Christmas playlist Blue sinking in a little

Assume it's considered a classic alternative Christmas song?

Very Based

3y

· edited

I'm glad you mentioned 'Blowin In The Wind' because even though that album is far from perfect, there are some of his greatest songs on it and that's sort of what I'm gesturing at with the later albums, because I consider the songs, even some on Freewheelin, as a completely different way of making music, to reiterate what you said, he changed the musical grammar and in a way created new musical language; Sad Eyed Lady of The Lowlands, (like The End by Jim Morrison) there was nothing (with my limited knowledge of the time period) like that that had been released prior, his lyrical prose, poetic sensibilities, creative expression, mythological persona, complex themes, biblical and literary references (a la Doors), a new vocabulary which as you say "(blew) the door wide open" for artists of the time. For me this is all found in those songs from 1963-1966. Perhaps the "album" doesn't support my thesis as well as I thought, by I still stand by "it" as retaining a, to overuse the word once again, cohesiveness in a way albums prior perhaps didn't achieve to nearly the same extent.

I hate to use quote but...

"Music journalist Gary Graff points to Highway 61 Revisited and Blonde on Blonde.....as possible starting points to the album era, as they each constituted "a cohesive and conceptual body of work rather than just some hit singles... with filler tracks."

The Beatles may have taken this a step further but that is really all I was getting at.

Also to @RVI 's point about separating Jazz from the popular (rock/folk/etc.) music of the time, preceding or co-existing and therefore influencing it, I'm in no way denying that, I was just separating them for the sake of my original post, which was a semantic discernment. Obviously classical highly influenced Jazz and Jazz remained an influence to much of the music of that time. All I was really trying to do was give a proper definition of "popular" music as meaning music that wasn't jazz or classical, a little bit reductionist but hey..., because i know the traditional meaning of the term can be confused with the modern definition.

rvi

3y

yeah the quote is true i think. as much as i dislike music writers' need to oversimplify narratives and proclaim one work/artist as THE moment/whatever, Highway 61 might be a slightly better pick than any other single album to herald the album era as we know it

maybe sgt peppers still was the one that took to the next level on the grandest scale though but thats big part due to the nonmusical elements of it tbf (and because beatles is more pop ofc)

Elric

3y

No I know the traditional pop definition, The Great American Songbook, Sinatra and Ella and all that. Yeah Bob is like blue yodeling Jimmy Rodgers mixed with Woody Guthrie mixed with beat poet, a fire and brimstone preacher etc in one. He has many hats that he sometimes wears at the same time.

Low-key probably the funniest songwriter as well, especially on the Basement Tapes (which pets my peeve when people act like his imperial phase ended in '66 when Basement Tapes is '67). Dive into that if you haven't yet.

rvi

3y

yeah the quote is true i think. as much as i dislike music writers' need to oversimplify narratives and proclaim one work/artist as THE moment/whatever, Highway 61 might be a slightly better pick than any other single album to herald the album era as we know it

maybe sgt peppers still was the one that took to the next level on the grandest scale though but thats big part due to the nonmusical elements of it tbf (and because beatles is more pop ofc)

Elric

3y

What Highway 61 did for words, Sgt Pepper did for sound (except you could also give some of that to Floyd, Beach Boys, Velvets, Revolver etc)

Very Based

3y

yeah tbf I was mosty talking about the music I've listened to extensively which honestly doesn't include the basement tapes. I know he was still releasing amazing music the years following (I've heard enough of it to know it's good but not that much). And like I said you guys are probably the experts/authorities on Dylan itt way moreso than me. I moved away from his music for a while, and then 1 or 2 years ago sparked my interest again. Part of that weirdly was re-listening for the umpteenth time The Doors first album a couple years ago, experiencing a kind of revelation, thinking no way anyway in this era could even touch this. Then I remembered Dylan and The Beatles and a bunch of other artists were due for a huge re-listen.

rvi

3y

and also for the notion of the album as a product which is pretty important tbh

Elric

3y

You have Spotify?

Bizzle

3y

Great band, I been jamming their debut a lot recently

Very Based

3y

yeah brotha we followed each other last month

you insulted mine and told you if you ever insult my baby like that again i'll never listen to your recs

Very Based

3y

yeah brotha we followed each other last month

you insulted mine and told you if you ever insult my baby like that again i'll never listen to your recs

Elric

3y

Ok well check out my 1966 and 1967 playlists for hundreds of gems that rival the best Doors and Dylan most intensely competitive era ever, so much top tier s*** got buried by the big boys.

And I'll make you a Basement Tapes playlist with all the best stuff if I could only have one album while lost on a desert island it would be the that (even a short version with a Blonde type length). He was never more touching, funny or human.

Elric

3y

Did like A Hard Day's Night and s*** not already do that?

Very Based

3y

yeah I don't really love Pets Sounds but certainly not going to deny it's influence. And has some really great tracks on it, God Only Knows being a contender for greatest song ever

Very Based

3y

yeah I don't really love Pets Sounds but certainly not going to deny it's influence. And has some really great tracks on it, God Only Knows being a contender for greatest song ever

Elric

3y

Man I can't believe this Van der Graaf incredible

Very Based

3y

is basement tapes even on spotify? or did they add it recently?