Villa

2y

You jus know this fool mad about Takeoff's death cause it's takes away from the bullshit attention promo he seeking.

back or whatever

2y

israel saved my grandparents' life and i have family that currently lives there. so yeah, i support the idea of israel at the very least. but if you're asking me if i support the israeli government, the answer is a resounding no in most respects. but with family there that also doesn't love what the israeli government has been doing to palestenians, that situation is a lot more complicated than how you're probably framing it. that's the most i'll say. you're not gonna paint me into a corner here.

kusa

2y

Ight I'll actually respond to you on because I'm being unfair. I think your original post is completely missing the entire point of why Kanye West went "after" Jewish people.

You said it yourself that Jewish people make a very small % of the American Population, YET on when it comes to Forbes 400 Richest American they make up 30% of the people on there. Compare it tt African American there's only 2. Why is this ? In what world is this fair ? Kanye is not the FIRST rapper to talk about this matter, if he feels threatened as a black man in America because his bosses who happen to be Jewish are treating him bad, the same way other rappers/artists have complained why is it bad to actually maybe take responsiblity ? Why do you believe the oppressed (Jewish People) cant become oppressors when they are given power ? Look at Israel, Jewish people were the most discriminated group against in Europe throughout all of history, yet what was done to them they are doing exactly what they did to Palestinians. They are oppressors now.

Jewish People in America have a white identity whether you like it or not. They believe they are white, and that's perfectly fine, but that's also why they have a benefit of being in America. African Americans do not.

I asked you a question whether you support Israel and you did not say yes or no. Answer the simple question and tell me you do not support Israel as a country.

Fries

2y

This is a straight answer that addresses the complexities of the situation, I can't believe this other guy is clowning up the thread as if you're being evasive

Like if your response to a Jewish person talking about their perspective on anti-semitism is to say 'What do you think about Israel though?' and endorse anti-semitic rhetoric yourself, you just have a problem with Jews and want to shut down any discussion of anti-semitism, the subtext to everything that guy, and most anti-semites, says is 'Stop talking about this', they don't actually want a discussion because they think anti-semitism is an insignificant issue with justifiable motives

back or whatever

2y

first of all, why do i have to take responsibility for s*** that other people are doing that has... nothing to do with being jewish? that's my point. that jewish people as a whole are being attacked for whatever a few jewish people are doing. that's irresponsible, and exactly the rhetoric that was responsible for the genocide of jews. whatever's going on with kanye isn't about jewish people. it's about the music, fashion, and banking industries. i never did anything to oppress anyone. why do i have to get blamed for that?

on the "in what world is that fair that jews make up 30% of the forbes list" point: since when has becoming ultra rich been about fairness? and like i mentioned in my op, the reason is mostly on cultural emphasis on education, which puts jews in positions to succeed in corporate america. and you have a good point on the fact that we have a white identity (although not conclusive considering the amount of iranian, syrian, and other middle eastern jews out there). but white identity plays a big role in why jews have been able to be successful. but that doesn't detract from us having a jewish identity too. i consider myself jewish before i consider myself white because last i checked it was still white people trying to kill us in 1939.

i told you exactly how i feel about israel. it's not a yes or no question for me. really just sounds like you're trying to paint me into a corner with "what about israel!" if you want me to say that i'm a zionist because israel is literally the reason i'm alive today, then sure i'm a zionist. but i don't agree with state sanctioned oppression anywhere. that's not a case of "jews got power in the middle east and now they're oppressing palestenians." it goes so far beyond that.

the jews in europe lived pretty normal lives until they got blamed in this exact form of rhetoric and propoganda. i'm saying that the same thing can happen here if this rhetoric continues to become popularized. there's strength in numbers. and there aren't a lot of jews. i understand that kanye isn't the first to talk about "jewish power" or whatever. but he's the one to broadcast it to a hundred million people online who listen to every word he says.

i also think that you think that i'm trying to compare my fears about antisemitic rhetoric to oppression of black people in america. that is not what i'm trying to do. two completely separate things in my mind, and they should be completely separate in your mind too. i've done what i can in my personal life to stand up to oppression where i see it.

tl;dr: i don't have to take responsibility for what's going on in the music/fashion/banking industry, i don't have to take responsibility for what's going on in israel; i am not conflating what is going on with the promotion of antisemtism with the oppression of black people in america

kusa

2y

No one is asking you take responsibility for what rich Jewish people are doing in America or Israel. No one is saying you did anything to oppress anyone. If you can sympathize with Kanye's or black peoples on why they are attacking these rich Jewish people than you are simply being ignorant on purpose.

You ALWAYS say that its cultural emphasis on education which is why Jewish succeed in corporate America. It's not because of Cultural emphasis. It is just because you guys have a white identity and are offered the same opportunities as other white people in America.

Money has never been about fairness, but it equates to peoples voices being heard more whether they are right or wrong. Politicians for example is a PERFECT example. You think rich black people can lobby to benefit African American's? Probably not they do not have the resources to do so. Yet there is Jewish Lobbying which is huge in America.

If that's how you want to view it then sure I am pushing you into a corner, because this isn't a really confusing question. I ask you whether you support Israel as a country and you answer yes. Leave it at that. If you want to argue whether Palestinians have a right to take over Israel that's completely different and I'd probably agree with you.

Jewish people in Europe did not live normal lives. Anti-Semitism existed before and after their emancipation, and it existed before the holocaust and it existed throughout all of history.

African Americans who throughout all of Americas existence have yet to be given an OUNCE of any sort of reparations whether it's in the form of socio-economic benefits or individually. Why does Kanye not have a right to be mad at the top CEOS and executives who are Jewish who treat him s***ty ?

Is Kanye's rhethoric bad? Yes, but the general idea's he is bringing forward are really important to actually talk about, and completely dismissing them ANTI-SEMITISM is stupid !

kusa

2y

No one is asking you take responsibility for what rich Jewish people are doing in America or Israel. No one is saying you did anything to oppress anyone. If you can sympathize with Kanye's or black peoples on why they are attacking these rich Jewish people than you are simply being ignorant on purpose.

You ALWAYS say that its cultural emphasis on education which is why Jewish succeed in corporate America. It's not because of Cultural emphasis. It is just because you guys have a white identity and are offered the same opportunities as other white people in America.

Money has never been about fairness, but it equates to peoples voices being heard more whether they are right or wrong. Politicians for example is a PERFECT example. You think rich black people can lobby to benefit African American's? Probably not they do not have the resources to do so. Yet there is Jewish Lobbying which is huge in America.

If that's how you want to view it then sure I am pushing you into a corner, because this isn't a really confusing question. I ask you whether you support Israel as a country and you answer yes. Leave it at that. If you want to argue whether Palestinians have a right to take over Israel that's completely different and I'd probably agree with you.

Jewish people in Europe did not live normal lives. Anti-Semitism existed before and after their emancipation, and it existed before the holocaust and it existed throughout all of history.

African Americans who throughout all of Americas existence have yet to be given an OUNCE of any sort of reparations whether it's in the form of socio-economic benefits or individually. Why does Kanye not have a right to be mad at the top CEOS and executives who are Jewish who treat him s***ty ?

Is Kanye's rhethoric bad? Yes, but the general idea's he is bringing forward are really important to actually talk about, and completely dismissing them ANTI-SEMITISM is stupid !

back or whatever

2y

i've got s*** to do so i'm just gonna go thru quickly:

1) You said, "why is it wrong to take accountability?" when talking about Jewish people as a whole. If you were talking about execs taking accountability, sure. But again, that is an executives thing and not a Jewish thing. The word "Jew" doesn't even have to be said when we're talking about that.
2) I conceded that white identity has helped Jews succeed. Certainly. But it's a blend of both. I am well aware of the cultural emphasis because I have lived it and watched it play out in real time. It's a real thing.
3) Jewish lobbying isn't "huge." Catholic and Christian lobbying is huge. And I don't see what that has to do with what I'm saying in being afraid of the consequences of the anti-semitism that one of the world's most popular figures is spewing to millions of people.
4.) If you're simply asking me whether I support Israel and not trying to paint me as someone who supports the oppression of Palestinians, I don't see how it was ever relevant to the conversation at all.
5.) Jewish people had relatively normal lives before the Holocaust when compared to Jewish life in the past. They were able to own businesses and send their kids to schools with everyone else. But if you want the truth, Jews have historically been systematically oppressed and displaced for thousands of years until very recently.
6.) Not sure what reparations have to do with anything that I'm saying. Nor does a lack of reparations justify getting mad at Jewish people. This is the whataboutism that I was talking about in my OP.
7.) If you're saying that Kanye's rhetoric is bad, then you agree that it's anti-semitic, and that it should be dismissed as anti-semitism. Sure, the power dynamics that he's talking about are important. But they have nothing to do with being Jewish. And not once in my exchange with you have I dismissed any of your points for being anti-semitic.

I think that if you agree that the rhetoric is bad, we don't really disagree about anything. I don't really see what your point is anymore.