Great counter arguments in this thread. You guys gonna make it far as socialists.

i got a counter for you

Gotta have some incentive to attract the best leaders to the Party

state capitalism

you think the red bourgeoise isn't gonna make bank off their new position in the social hierarchy?

especially with their flirting with market liberalization

red social democracy

i mean, state socialism where the workers control pretty much little to nothing, for sure.

socialism in its true form according to marx and every other marxist that isn't/wasn't a leninist, where all power is to the workers and the means of production are actually distributed to them, this really wouldn't be an issue

but every time you bring this up, you get a bunch of infantile leninists whining about it, considering they and the americans unironically believe socialism is when the government does stuff in an authoritarian fashion, when that is not the case

i'd argue that thought line is anti-socialist in itself, considering it dumbs down workers to the same spot as in american capitalism, in that workers are too stupid to libertate themselves and do things for themselves

and then they'll post parenti quotes about "AES" or whatever

leninism is basically a red version of Bismarckian social democracy, which Lenin himself took a lot of inspiration from

also can anyone answer the question why Marx and Engels are conflated as the same thinking entity in these circles, when they diverged from each other quite a bit.

I mean even Marx addressed that some of his theory was euro-centric, especially with his stagiest view of productive forces developing through capitalism and so on, but he died before he could put it down concretely and Engels really didn't like it, so he kinda suppressed it.

when a government either becomes or controls a large portion of the economy those in charge are incentivized to exploit their authority over civilians with lower/minimal repercussions due to:

1. the greater degree of authority granted to - often unelected - government officials (more opportunities for corruption / people scared to fight back in fear their will lose, for example, their economic resources and/or advantages)

2. poor national economic performance due to inefficient allocation of capital causing said officials to need to take kickbacks in order to maintain their standard of living

Chief, where are you getting these figures?

Gaddafi the only guy on there who was loaded, and dude was barely socialist on his best day

Concentrating power into a privileged class, under socialism being a ruling party versus the masses, is what allows this to happen. Political parties and socialism don't mix, Lenin and Mao tried valiantly but the demise of the USSR and China becoming capitalist is proof that parties cannot be trusted to facilitate socialism

Cause they clearly not real socialists, but just used their power for their own gain, like most political leaders

Coming back to this thread, is this some sort of “gotcha” moment?

Like capitalism incentives this kinda stuff?

Yeah socialists are scum

Gaddafi was a socialist?

Dude was a social democrat on a good day lol, Libya wasn't even formally considered a socialist country

You ever heard of Sarvodaya, EZLN, Rojava, or Exarchia?

that dude flip flopped more than havaianas sandals

Why do you think OP? Lol

I love the people who go like “FALSE: Stalin only owned THREE dachas”

FALSE: Stalin only owned THREE dachas