Oct 3, 2020·2 replies
DEL_3352what makes you think that any other system solves these problems?
socialism doesn't suddenly make resources infinite
socialism doesn't solve climate change
never mentioned socialism but i already told you what the best system is for environmental sustainability
worked for a few hundred thousand years until it was succeeded by the one that will only work for a few thousand
- Oct 3, 2020·1 reply
hey man relaxop asked a question and then spent the entirety of the thread spamming “wrong”
political discourse of today in a nutshell
thread is performance art
- Oct 3, 2020nocomment
thread is performance art
guess op is the unpaid actor
Oct 3, 2020I'll defer to my avi
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replynocomment
never mentioned socialism but i already told you what the best system is for environmental sustainability
worked for a few hundred thousand years until it was succeeded by the one that will only work for a few thousand
The best system for environmental sustainability is capitalism
Jaden Smith is a good example. The problem isn’t necessarily capitalism.. it’s that, all of the environmentalist type people need to stop whining and just become good at business and use their business to save the environment. You can make money by sustaining the environment but ppl just need to figure out how
Like, the problem is that The people that are passionate about making money are not also passionate about the environment but if they were then they would definitely figure that s*** out
- Oct 3, 2020
the cradle of motherfucking civilization
fair play
go talk to the referee dont complain to me
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replyKalamariFromParty
The best system for environmental sustainability is capitalism
Jaden Smith is a good example. The problem isn’t necessarily capitalism.. it’s that, all of the environmentalist type people need to stop whining and just become good at business and use their business to save the environment. You can make money by sustaining the environment but ppl just need to figure out how
Like, the problem is that The people that are passionate about making money are not also passionate about the environment but if they were then they would definitely figure that s*** out
you're obviously some kind of witty enough to come up with this trolling bs in quick time
maybe you should positively contribute to the world with your ability
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replynocomment
never mentioned socialism but i already told you what the best system is for environmental sustainability
worked for a few hundred thousand years until it was succeeded by the one that will only work for a few thousand
so you want everyone to go back to living in primitive tribes?
what kind of solution is that?
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replyKalamariFromParty
Kill or be killed.
Do you think that lion would hesitate to Eat you alive if you were in its vicinity?So why should we feel bad for doing the same thing
We don’t owe any other species any moral responsibility. We only owe it to ourselves. A meteor could crash down on earth Rn and end everything and so u think that meteor gives a f***.. no, bc it’s just nature
We as humans are also just a part of nature bc we were born from itYou’re moving the goalposts and doing too much
Lion would die because of either poaches or its natural habitat being destroyed for unnecessary monetary gain
Which would also affect you as the constant harming of the environment means more environmental disasters.
Nothing really to do with kill or be killed.
Oct 3, 2020·1 replyKalamariFromPartyLike I said, it’s very hard to keep wealth. Look at the most wealthy companies in the USA every 10 years. It’s always changing
Amazon could literally flop 40 years from now and declare for bankruptcy.
And yea to even live off of the interest from whatever money is leftover takes a lot of effort maintenance and knowledge that most people just don’t care for. Being born into wealth doesn’t automatically make you competent.As far as opportunities go... sure wealthier people are going to have more opportunities. The problem isn’t how many opportunities there are, though, it’s about how high quality are the opportunities that everyone has. Like the baseline/minimum. Which is moreso a government issue than an economic one imo. We can be a capitalist society and still have a universal basic income.
But in the USA, almost every citizen has access to the internet which is already the greatest singular equalizer of wealth there is. Do you know how many women went from being dead broke to rich as f*** just from starting an only fans? Then there are a million more examples and as time goes on it only gets better and betteri think the piece youre missing is that unendingly accumulating massive amounts of capital requires downward pressure on everyone else.
its not really possible to return greater and greater profits while giving everyone a living wage and healthcare, protecting the environment, etc.
you can see this historically with what i mentioned earlier itt. outsourcing to "free zones" in the south with no restrictions on capital because profits were stagnating ... capitalists turned to workers who were being paid scraps with no benefits for relief.
- Oct 3, 2020·2 repliesKalamariFromParty
Like I said, it’s very hard to keep wealth. Look at the most wealthy companies in the USA every 10 years. It’s always changing
Amazon could literally flop 40 years from now and declare for bankruptcy.
And yea to even live off of the interest from whatever money is leftover takes a lot of effort maintenance and knowledge that most people just don’t care for. Being born into wealth doesn’t automatically make you competent.As far as opportunities go... sure wealthier people are going to have more opportunities. The problem isn’t how many opportunities there are, though, it’s about how high quality are the opportunities that everyone has. Like the baseline/minimum. Which is moreso a government issue than an economic one imo. We can be a capitalist society and still have a universal basic income.
But in the USA, almost every citizen has access to the internet which is already the greatest singular equalizer of wealth there is. Do you know how many women went from being dead broke to rich as f*** just from starting an only fans? Then there are a million more examples and as time goes on it only gets better and betteralso the internet example is poor given that its an oligopoly with terrible and unethical service (the loss of net neutrality and its consequences)
- Oct 3, 2020nocomment
you're obviously some kind of witty enough to come up with this trolling bs in quick time
maybe you should positively contribute to the world with your ability
I’m not trolling at all. I’m being serious
And trust me, I’m making $2,000 hourly in the background while having this conversation. There’s a time for work, and a time for play. I already worked what I deemed long enough to work today and now it was time to play so I came to KTT
if you don’t want to genuinely argue the logic in what I said, that’s fine. Just say that
Oct 3, 2020·1 replycoltrupalso the internet example is poor given that its an oligopoly with terrible and unethical service (the loss of net neutrality and its consequences)
Are you poor? Don't worry just start an onlyfans stop being broke today
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replyDEL_3352
so you want everyone to go back to living in primitive tribes?
what kind of solution is that?
can you think of anything better
i would also welcome an AI technoautocracy but a lot could go wrong there lol
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replystream evangelion
Are you poor? Don't worry just start an onlyfans stop being broke today
first time ive seen OF used as a positive like that so props to him
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replynocomment
can you think of anything better
i would also welcome an AI technoautocracy but a lot could go wrong there lol
cap and dividend on ecological footprint that keeps us within planetary bounds, socialize public goods, democratize workplaces and implement decent wealth redistribution policies + a safety net
thats my view anyway
edit - this is less ideal and more like what i think can actually be done
- Oct 3, 2020coltrup
first time ive seen OF used as a positive like that so props to him
Same argument as being pro prostitution while saying it's a benefit of capitalism because prostitutes earn money
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replycoltrup
cap and dividend on ecological footprint that keeps us within planetary bounds, socialize public goods, democratize workplaces and implement decent wealth redistribution policies + a safety net
thats my view anyway
edit - this is less ideal and more like what i think can actually be done
probably a billion times more practical than my ideas but i have completely given up hope of change like this because of the relentless forces of our systems eg money and growth, namely corporatism
Oct 3, 2020·1 replyIt’s fine, there’s unlimited opportunity in America as long as you have an internet connection you can become whoever you want to be. What really f***s people over is politicians getting lobbied (bribed) and passing laws that benefit big companies and hurt people and the environment
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replyClassique
It’s fine, there’s unlimited opportunity in America as long as you have an internet connection you can become whoever you want to be. What really f***s people over is politicians getting lobbied (bribed) and passing laws that benefit big companies and hurt people and the environment
What really f***s people over is politicians getting lobbied (bribed) and passing laws that benefit big companies and hurt people and the environment
you dont think these are direct and natural consequences of capitalism?
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replycoltrup
i think the piece youre missing is that unendingly accumulating massive amounts of capital requires downward pressure on everyone else.
its not really possible to return greater and greater profits while giving everyone a living wage and healthcare, protecting the environment, etc.
you can see this historically with what i mentioned earlier itt. outsourcing to "free zones" in the south with no restrictions on capital because profits were stagnating ... capitalists turned to workers who were being paid scraps with no benefits for relief.
That’s a government issue. The government needs to be regulating that and making sure that doesn’t happen.
Capitalism is like a game. Like Hide & Seek. If you and I played hide & seek, and you started counting to 20 and I went and got in my car and drove away.. ur not gonna have any fun playing that game. The government needs to be the parent that steps in and says what the rules of the game are and what its boundaries Are so that we can only play inside of the house and now you actually have a fair chance of finding me/winning the game
Do you really think that a company trying to outsource to those places to save money is going to care if they have to spend an extra few million dollars on Labor? I mean, sure, they are going to “care” but all they care about is paying the cheapest possible labor that is still legal. And u are saying that the cheapest possible labor that is legal in these other countries are still inhumane / wrong conditions.. so just make those conditions be set to where you think the conditions are at a humane level. If literally everywhere in the world had to pay at least the minimum wage that you think is right, then companies would Still play the game despite the extra costs associated with it vs before bc they are already almost profiting so much that it doesn’t even matter anyways
- Oct 3, 2020·2 repliesnocomment
probably a billion times more practical than my ideas but i have completely given up hope of change like this because of the relentless forces of our systems eg money and growth, namely corporatism
well growth will end by choice or planetary force, so change is inevitable.
barring unprecedented advances in tech/interplanetary travel which you can never count out ig
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replycoltrup
well growth will end by choice or planetary force, so change is inevitable.
barring unprecedented advances in tech/interplanetary travel which you can never count out ig
Elon is gonna save us bby don’t worry
- Oct 3, 2020·1 replycoltrup
well growth will end by choice or planetary force, so change is inevitable.
barring unprecedented advances in tech/interplanetary travel which you can never count out ig
growth isn't a symptom of corporations and capitalism
it's a symptom of humanity
- Oct 3, 2020·editedKalamariFromParty
That’s a government issue. The government needs to be regulating that and making sure that doesn’t happen.
Capitalism is like a game. Like Hide & Seek. If you and I played hide & seek, and you started counting to 20 and I went and got in my car and drove away.. ur not gonna have any fun playing that game. The government needs to be the parent that steps in and says what the rules of the game are and what its boundaries Are so that we can only play inside of the house and now you actually have a fair chance of finding me/winning the game
Do you really think that a company trying to outsource to those places to save money is going to care if they have to spend an extra few million dollars on Labor? I mean, sure, they are going to “care” but all they care about is paying the cheapest possible labor that is still legal. And u are saying that the cheapest possible labor that is legal in these other countries are still inhumane / wrong conditions.. so just make those conditions be set to where you think the conditions are at a humane level. If literally everywhere in the world had to pay at least the minimum wage that you think is right, then companies would Still play the game despite the extra costs associated with it vs before bc they are already almost profiting so much that it doesn’t even matter anyways
you cannot have a system where there is unbounded growth but bounded resources and quality of life. something has to give.
markets that are capped in terms of material footprint and mostly democratically managed rather than controlled by investors who demand ever increasing profits is the only way out.
edit - assuming you are keeping some kind of market system