Zoobooks

2y

It seems like we disagree on a fundamental aspect. One thing I'm sure we can agree on is that the gap in wages between the lowest level of workers and highest levels of management should be greatly shortened. One part that I don't think we'll be able to see eye-to-eye on is the intrinsic value of actually creating a company, organizing the structure and continually managing that company.

Think about it this way. Let's say I want to start a restaurant, but don't currently have the capital to do so. I have kitchen and management experience, but not much business experience. I do all of the research required to start a restaurant business, prepare pitches, start a campaign to raise funds, apply for loans, apply for grants, find graphic designers for marketing materials, find the location, apply for licensing, get building permits, scout food suppliers, scout kitchen equipment suppliers, go through the agonizing process of actually making the deals, purchase a security system, get insurance, get certification, pass inspections, conduct interviews for kitchen staff and management and find an accountant. Then I actually have to manage the day-to-day operations of a restaurant. The restaurant becomes very popular. Eventually, I pay off the loans and have a surplus. With this and another loan, we decide to turn the restaurant into a franchise, sell merchandise and so on and so on until I become a billionaire.

Where I think we fundamentally disagree is that if I took the opportunity to initiate and manage this entire 20-30 year process, I simply believe that a large gap in wage is justified between myself and a line cook for example. Should it be as grossly disproportionate as it is in America (in this example, at least) currently? Absolutely not, but in this scenario I don't understand how I would be exploiting my workers if I'm paying them a livable wage (although the word "livable" carries a lot of weight here).

TheLostBoy

2y

Kanye isn’t evil

Skinn Foley

2y

He is literally a Nazi

Skinn Foley

2y

If, hypothetically, you were able to pay every employee a living wage while still becoming a billionaire, and you allowed the workers to unionize, in a vacuum, your argument holds some water.

However, this is where macroeconomic a***ysis comes into play.

You won't be the only entrepreneur in town. You will need to compete against other firms to remain solvent. But moreover, the nature of the competition is entirely guided by the basic economic law of supply and demand.

Eventually, while your business may be able to hold onto a steady flow of customers, the initial rush of a new business opening will not last forever. You won't have a line out the door everyday, even if you're turning a net profit. This isn't a problem by itself...until you factor in the cost of rent, upkeep, utilities, replenishing raw materials, taxes, wages*, and so forth. The cost of maintaining/purchasing/paying for all these things is dictated by a competitive market economy that is driven by the incentive to generate superprofits for capitalists so they can combat declining demand from eventual market saturation of the commodities they produce/services they provide, so that they can diversify their revenue streams, thereby continuing to make money, as is required to survive in a capitalist society. Otherwise, the firm will become insolvent or will be extremely precarious with no room for error or a major market shift, leaving the business at risk of folding (i.e. a pandemic shutting down local businesses and returning the small-time capitalist back to the working class if and when their businesses fold).

So, how does the capitalist combat this? The commodities they sell or services they provide will decline in demand, thus generating less and less profit over time (this is a basic economic principle in capitalism known as diminishing returns), thus generating less revenue, while the costs of raw materials, rent, utilities, and so forth, either remain static or become more expensive relative to currency inflation due to economic growth and increased federal debt taken on for various reasons (a certain level of federal debt is also not just unavoidable, but beneficial, for a capitalist society, even for the workers). As they cannot control the influx of consumers, and cannot control the cost of upkeep, rent, utilities, and replenishment of raw materials, they need to skim the money off of the workers in order to create superprofits, or revenue that goes beyond the replenishment of raw resources for the firm to continue to produce commodities.

After this, the capitalist will either be able to try to weather the storm in their limited storefront and perhaps try to create new commodities or services to generate demand, and thus heighten revenue, or can reinvest these superprofits into new ventures for the same reason. But what they cannot do, which is again a fundamental law of capitalism outlined in the "Iron Law of Wages", is pay the worker anything more than the base requirement for them to survive, and to compensate them for skills that took extra economic investment on the worker's behalf, including work experience attained through the worker's sale of their labor power to the capitalist in return for a wage, in order for the capitalist to ensure optimal functionality of the firm, and thus better guarantee consistent revenue. As such, you end up with a relatively privileged labor elite and a huge number of common workers who, to varying degrees, are having their wages skimmed off the top by the capitalist so that the capitalist can continue to generate competitive profits for the firm so that it can not only remain solvent, but compete with the rates of growth and services/commodities provided by other businesses in the field.

This furthermore doesn't take into account the environmental question of the right of an individual to exploit miles of land to build businesses on and to horde massive amounts of natural resources privately to produce these commodities, which eventually requires imperialist invasion of foreign territories to attain increased amounts of raw materials as domestic natural resources dry up from continued land exploitation and market growth.

Therefore, the idea that you could pay workers a truly living wage beyond the bare minimum for survival despite their labor actually propping the business up, and become a billionaire in the process, is a logical fallacy.

Great question, had to think about the answer for a little bit

mvp

2y

expire

Jimmy Rimmy

2y

Fire read

dmac

2y

No wonder you’re so violent, your people are the ones going around blowing themselves up. Why don’t you do us a favor and do the same?

slime wrld

2y

don’t even care about this question anymore all the bots are finally thinking about this 7-8 years too late

Skinn Foley

2y

I'm always willing to have intelligent and reasonable debate with people who are intelligently discussing the topic at hand

The "just get your bread up" crew is so lost and ignorant that I really can't suffer them lmao

I have sympathy for them if they're kids though because I used to think like that too

dmac

2y

No wonder you’re so violent, your people are the ones going around blowing themselves up. Why don’t you do us a favor and do the same?

Skinn Foley

2y

A lot of Americans forget that we were on track to electing a democratic socialist for president in 1968 until he was assassinated by the CI...Sirhan Sirhan

Y'all really should read Robert F. Kennedy's works. He's an American hero

Prosper

2y

Don't worry I'll let you hold something. But you gotta do something mid extreme

Skinn Foley

2y

my dude please

Islamophobia ain't the answer. Just block him if you're mad at him. Economically I'm on his side and I'm not keeping up with y'all beef but racism isn't cool or justifiable under any circumstances. Argue the argument or excuse yourself from it. You wanna take some potshots and s***-talk? Fine. We all do it. But racism ain't it.

hrisko

2y

You do know this site is not just americans on it right?

Skinn Foley

2y

"He can't be Islamophobic he's not from the USA so telling a Muslim to blow themselves up is okay"