🎣

Just to be clear, you’re not insinuating China’s going to militantly take over these countries, right? Because nukes or no nukes - Iran’s army isn’t something you can fw & then walk away with both limbs intact.

All the proof you need coming exclusively from chinese social media platforms

It’s not genocide but theres plenty of evidence that mass incarceration mass deportation and forced labor is happening

They don't have to. Its in the deal. China gets to keep 5000 trips on site ;)

Extremism in any form is wrong

I dont really see what the economic system of a country has to do w this form of genocide/discrimination tho. I cant really see the correlation between socialism and locking up people in concentration camps tbh. I also wouldnt call China socialist lol. So if the ones defending China only do that cause theyre left wing and think China is the epitome of that theyre dumb af and should inform themselves some more lmao

how do you explain the anomalous decline in fertility rates in that region tho

that was the first piece of ev that really made me pause, especially bc china itself released it

They use other tactics than the Europeans did in the past, who used violence. China literally taking over countries with money. You should look up how much some of these countries in debt to China. Its crazy tbh. Not talking specifically bout Iran now too btw

its confusing though bc it seems like the majority of ppl defending china in these instances also identify as like, socialists of some variant

and on one hand i get its "critical support" but I also understood that term to suggest "we are critically supporting countries opposing US imperialism". but idk how thats the case if china is just trying to impose its own brand of imperialism/authoritarianism

like America is clearly the main perpretrator of global violence but it doesnt feel to me that china's aspirations are much better. what with the situation in the autonomous zone, the hundreds of billionaires, neocolonialism, etc.

There's been countless cases in history of countries that are obviously not good examples of how a government should lead a country. Whether it's a bad record on human rights, economic mismanagement or even aggression towards other countries, but these are never the reasons for why the US (or any other Western country for that matter) has adversarial relations with these countries. It's just in their geopolitical interest to do so, but atrocity propaganda serves as a good justification to the public. If that wasn't the case, why does the West have such friendly relations with countries like Israel or Saudi Arabia?

And the thing is, everything that the US says about China could be true, but their portrayal of China would still be propaganda. It's not just about whether or not events are being reported on accurately, but what events they choose to cover, how frequently, and in what tone, and then the difference between how China's and for example Saudi Arabia's crimes are being portrayed becomes very apparent.

yeah i def agree with that, i dont think the US' geopolitical relationships or media is the barometer for a country's ethicality or anything

im just saying im confused as to where the socialist defense of china is stemming from if we all agree it isnt opposed to imperialism or actually socialist (or do we even agree on that?)

maybe its just a reaction to the right wing framing of america as the good guy/last bulwark against evil scary china in an attempt to absolve america

oh also I agree re: propaganda but I don't think its a binary thing. like WaPo or NYT can be neoliberal bs but if they say something like "there's 600 billionaires in China" I won't necessarily dismiss that on face

Ahh well those are just Dengists, and lately I noticed there's been an increase of Western leftists (wrongly) looking towards China as like their last hope for socialism.

I think there are mostly two reasons for that:

1. The same way that Western liberals view the negative portrayal of a country by the West as an indication of that country being good, too many Western leftists basically do the same thing but in the opposite direction and automatically have a favorable opinion on any country that becomes demonized by the West.

2. The situation is just bad lmao, when it comes to the world turning towards socialism the situation isn't looking too great, so people are reaching for anything that gives them hope.

This LMFAO

You should be banned for this tbh.

No, but there are people here who deny the genocide of the Uighur people.

No, but there are people here who deny the genocide of the Uighur people.

People who are unsure of whether there's a genocide going on bc of lack of hard evidence, yes. I haven't seen any politics sxn regulars deny that Uighurs are obviously oppressed and put in concentration camps though.

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

This all applies to what china is doing to Uighurs. They're not.putting people away for committing crimes, they're putting them away for exercising their culture. This is quite clearly worse than regular incarceration. The intent to destroy uighur culture is the defining part

As @KuntaKinte detailed earlier in the thread, they admit to half this s*** themselves and claim it is because of terrorism

Trash user, this nigga really only posts to give lazy defense for his friends in threads. I s2g

Also the "Why doesnt America s*** on Saudi Arabia like they do China" argument is stupid

Its the Chomsky East Timor Cambodia argument. You can call out America for its relations with Saudi Arabia without bringing it up as some whataboutist deflection of the actions in Xinjiang.

Most people dont even like Saudi Arabia. Who is out here defending them???

Can anyone give me a Saudi Arabia skeptic like our resident Uighur camp skeptics??

Anyone???

This is literally the same line of reasoning that got Chomsky labeled a Cambodian genocide denier lmao.

We literally had someone cite a google doc with 167 pages of Uighur concentration camp denialism on this forum lmao.

And just like Chomsky its always citing people who are literally engaged in the crimes we're discussing. Its such a random unnecessary L to take

A normal person would just state that China sucks d*** just like America. You think the Uighurs are the rallying cry to fight back against China? People barely give a f*** now

And inb4 someone says Chomsky did not engage in genocide denial because he didnt say it didnt happen. Despite him literally downplaying the numbers ot deaths reported.

Thats literally what modern neo Nazis do with regards to the Holocaust.

Chomsky put a little disclaimer that "Haha Im not saying i know the truth but that you should be skeptical of refugee interviews and death toll numbers which turned out to be accurwte for an entire essay" and that was enough to avoid any claims of genocide denial

Also this thread being bait is a hilarious notion.

It's not bait if we keep sheisty posters dropping in to be ultra skeptical and hyper vague about how China is putting Uighurs in camps meanwhile random posters drop 100 page google docs from r/sino, some hyper astroturfed subreddit, about how there is nothing wrong in Xinjiang, its just Western propaganda.