For sure

I agree. I think the performance art was misleading in the sense that we thought these were live streams for an album dropping at midnight. But it's Kanye and we should have taken it nothing at face value. Overall, the experiences were pretty enjoyable.

I always find it funny when people say Ye only recently "found God" in his music. God has always been a theme in his music but yes, it's only in the last few years does he talk about being a man of God.

Donda to me found that sweet spot between TLOP and his other projects. It felt way more fleshed out in terms of a structure and theme even after the first listening party.

i don't know how Ye's life is but i just know i'm at a point in my life right now where I need God too. nothing crazy going on but when you seen enough s*** you realize there ain't nobody on this earth who got your back like yourself, and that sometimes renews your faith in God bc you want to believe someone (or some thing) has your back

that being said, the days of old Ye are over if that's why you're coming to Donda. Yeah you'll get vibes from previous albums but Donda is its own thing. It's a dedication to both his mother and God. So the fact he built Donda up like that through several parties/iterations like that for the world to participate is in LEGENDARY. If you care at all about what goes on in an artist's head when they create, you can have nothing but gratitude for this.

so yeah God is a big theme in this album, but in every other way it's a Ye record. he may not be the greatest artist vocally but the genius in him is far from dead. nobody has a better ear at finding artists a placement on HIS tracks where they shine.

this probably is more of an ode to kanye than it is to donda but f*** all that drake vs ye s*** for a min. if you're a fan of music you will always be a fan of kanye.

The evolution is his creative output has been incredible

I personally think the performance is still going

goat

how are people s***ting on this take? every real post ITT has my full agreement

I think you might be right tbh

1000% agree. Is the album perfect? No. Was the rollout perfect? No. Is it a perfect representation of Kanye and the way he wants to tribute his mom and express his perspective today? I would argue so and the evidence was laid before us for the past 6 months and even before.

I also feel you on the needing god part. We all just went through a year that directly affected our lives in one way or another and imo we’ll be dealing with the trauma of it for a long time societally. I also have felt much more open and even desiring of spirituality and meaning as things open back up and I know plenty of other people that have voiced the same. In that context, this message is perfectly timed. I know 24 and Come To Life have f***ed me up emotionally multiple times today alone lol

i feel the exact same, also taking into account the fact that the last time i felt that way about a kanye album was tlop

something is clearly up

Absolutely. It’s crazy to think it’s been 5 years.

In general I think it's interesting that we were able to be apart of and in a way contribute to the process via LP etc. Even outside of music and the entire Yandi-Donda process we witness the ups and downs of him.

It almost in a way breaks down the wall that something needs to be so polished, so fine tuned, and so absolute when it is put out on the internet and shared as an artist or someone that is creative - ultimately a by product of social media.

The desire to feel so curated and put together as an artist I'm sure is scary in the era of social media. A good amount of times in art and design the process is what makes things more relatable and more enjoyable sometimes than the end product.

Yeah, damn. I remember pissy pamper getting random vaporwave music video edits with millions of views. The uploaders edited like, Rocky verses from A$AP mob tracks and s*** into them.

What’s really weird is, like you said, when you don’t keep up with leaker culture and then when a song drops you suddenly have people referencing all this mythology around it and you’re just clueless.

For sure I would even go as far as to say that There’s always been a contextual/performance art component to each Kanye era, but this is the first time that it really feels like it’s extremely beneficial to the music itself to have witnessed the listening parties and followed the rollout, seen how the songs evolved, associated the visuals of each show, etc.

And not even in a way that’s detrimental in its absence, either. It’s a damn good album on its own but it really fleshes itself out when experienced as the culmination of a performance piece.

I think it’s a perfect example of how a lot of the best executed modern art really succeeds: by both being enjoyable as art for art’s sake and then acting as a backbone for a larger and sometimes more rewarding communication of the artist’s perspective.

My opinion, of course. What do y’all think?

To add to that the creation of Donda also led to essentially a new culture being formed. We have seen this with the Avengers movies, TV shows, etc. Fans and even those who have no idea who Kanye West is become interested by these listening parties a 45 year old man is putting on. Eventually they get sucked in and anticipate the next one. When we become a part of a culture we always watch what is happening, progress, and when the next release date is. I feel like this is one of the very few times it’s been done musically rather than a TV series, movie series, etc.

I hope that all makes sense

For sure - he’s definitely pushing rap/pop music forward into this larger performance space the same way he did with the fashion space before. It’s much more accessible to folks who aren’t as into rap and in a lot of ways bridges multiple eras of rap while doing it, which makes it an awesome entry point - and to your point, the whole spectacle plus the passion of the folks already part of it makes it that much more intriguing.

Great comparison to the Avengers. I was one of those folks, I never did and still don’t really care for action movies much less superhero movies, but the series and its extensions (specifically Wandavision) gave me a great view of this cultural phenomenon and helped me understand the passion once I gave it a chance.

Avengers was the first thing that came to mind. When Infinity War came out I remember there were so many memes, everyone talked about it, and then when it came out the theaters were packed. While it’s a different form of media from Donda, the album has evolved in that same sense.

Right - and the listening parties were extremely effective in culling that interest and effectively doing a performative kind of promo

I would honestly love to hear a passionate fan of a different art form’s perspective of this whole thing. Film and TV folks especially I feel would really dig into it as long as they’re not turned off by the controversies at the surface.

y'all smoking crack my god

Insightful thoughts tbh

i think it's more a reflection of the power of spectacle in social media age than it is an achievement in performance art.

i'm sure i'll get s*** for this, but LP1 and LP3 took away from the music for me.

LP2 coupled with the 24 hour stream was the only one that raised to a level of good performance art imo

I actually agree with you about LP1 and LP3 in that they might actually have detracted from the experience in execution (mainly because he literally could have just planned 3 parties from the start rather than pump faking a release each time with similar or better effect) but in theory three listening parties with different versions of the album each time is awesome.

I’d actually argue that now that the dust has cleared, debuting beloved features (and to a lesser extent song structural components like the choir in Praise God) and then yanking them away before delivering a best of both worlds experience (for the most part lol) on the final album was an incredibly bold and imo fascinating choice.

He’s also really smashed open the modern leaker culture with this album. Like it was already pretty crazy when Carti had fans compiling 200+ song drives of his leaks and getting shocked when fans sung his unreleased songs back to him in concert, but Kanye from the Yandhi era on is just different.

We have 20+ versions of Hurricane and there’s entire subcultures in his fanbase that only engage with specific older versions of his leaks and construct weird mashups based on what they think is the best. People been obsessing over every single aspect of the Yandhi-Donda in miniature. It’s actually revolutionary. Like this makes ‘imma fix wolves’ look like some primitive caveman s***

Very true, Hurricane itself is fascinating. Imagine hearing the final version from today back in 2018 when that first snippet dropped. Hell, I only heard the leaked Ty verse for it like a week or two ago. That song alone could fill an EP of remixes and the fans have the tools to make it.

they should def make a hurricane ep bc ive heard close to none of the versions lmao

Hell yeah, I’m sure /r/yedits is already on it lol

Also to your point about Carti, I just talked about Pissy Pamper in another thread; so many leaked songs develop a mythology around them and this allowed not only the super fan but the casual/semi-casual fan to experience that mythology along with the feeling of catharsis when it finally drops. Of course that also risks that the final doesn’t live up to the hype, but we had so many grails from this album that arrived in their best and most polished versions.

It’s a crazy feeling of both hype for something new and nostalgia for something that you’ve had to imagine the gaps in.

This thread should be moved to G&G for the mental masturbation

Counterpoint: you could just try crack

Yeah the pump fakes definitely have frustrated me with this album. and i still feel in some way all of the arbitrary dates were ways kanye was trying to force himself to finish the album

But that aside, I would have to do some mental gymnastics to find a real conceptual through line from LP1-3. Which is where I'm really let down.

One example being that it felt super forced when the ascension video from LP2 was thrown into the middle of LP3...

I'm not mad at all for anyone enjoying the era and rollout, and I get how people love debating all the different versions.
getting into that level of minutiae doesn't do it for me personally.

maybe it's all just marketing for the stem player

I’ll give him that LP2 in particular feels really strongly like a representation of hell/purgatory and also as an abstract representation of grief. And the 24 hour livestream was cool as f***. But LP1 was very half-baked and IMO LP3 had a great concept, but completely lost the plot because Kanye leaned too heavily on the controversial guests on the porch than what the porch itself meant.

Also fair enough about the minutiae. I’m very into that kind of s*** lol, but I see your perspective.

I will say I loved the ascension video and what it was trying to do, but it’d have hit way harder as an intro even if Donda Donda Donda was still intended as the album intro

Appreciate your view and level headed debate lol. Glad you enjoyed the rollout and process

Feel like differing opinions on here is rarely civil anymore
I def respect the art direction and amount for hard work that went into it. Only our GOAT Kanye could have pulled that s*** off

But DONDA is just a decent album at best. Better then ye and JIK obviously, but other then that? Nah every Kanye album is better

It’s a fine album

Hell yeah absolutely, thanks for chatting it through! Tbh actual discussion is more fun than just stating opinions like they’re facts anyway

I’m honestly having a really hard time placing it in career context, obviously because it’s new but also just because of how far Kanye now is removed from 2016-prior. Imo, it’s instantly better than Ye and JIK, and it’s up there with my favorite albums of the year, so that’s enough for me to be satisfied. But idk how it’s going to age, we’ll see

Yeah exactly. Would’ve made way more sense at the beginning of the show.

Although I feel the general atmosphere of LP3, controversial figures aside, was still quite dark for an ascension to lead to that set

Good point tbh. That’s probably one reason LP3 fell flat, the fact that it was just so jarring and dark when it didn’t really feel like it should’ve been. Obviously there’s no right answer for art, but it felt like that ascension teed up a redemption followed by the album rather than a descent even further followed by the album.

That said, if the intent is that the purgatory/hell of grief continues, then it certainly accomplished that feeling.

Good posts btw!

I’ve always said that I don’t think the music industry has fully achieved its creative potential and if there’s anyone on this planet to push it to new boundaries it’s Kanye. Listening parties (although I have my own beef with them) are extremely unique and just the start.

If LP1 and LP3 had to exist so LP3 could then I’m okay with that.