He did that once he dropped Assume Form tbh

Assume form is his best imo and I’ve been a fan since the CMYK ep

Idk what it is about this album that it never really dug it’s hooks in me like his last s*** has

Maybe I just wasn’t in a place to connect with it; or maybe just the songs themselves don’t really relate to me

He's a super nice guy in person and I appreciate his whole transparency empathy shtick, but yeah I couldn't agree more

There's not one song post-If the Car Beside You Moves Ahead that even holds a candle to that trifecta. Why he can't see that for himself and why he's so hellbent on continuing this failed crossover attempt is beyond me

The Before EP exists and slaps

No polyrhythmic elements, minimal emphasis on sparseness and minimalism, all the song structures have a poppier disposition than his earlier stuff which was so influenced by rnb, soul and gospel which is what made the electronic part of his music so captivating, and the crisp and spacious mixing/mastering dilutes a lot of the clutteredness that made his earlier stuff feel so pointed-yet-ambiguous

If The Car Besides You Moves Ahead is soooo good. i think it is the right balance between his old and new sound. could even add a little more lyrical content to it and it'd still work.

You in every thread checking who was listening to who and when ? Ain't you tired of this ?

Don't Miss It is one of his best songs imo

also it really a crossover attempt? Retrograde was his biggest radio song in the UK. So I don't think he's changing to try and be more mainstream. I just think he loves pop songwriting as well as what he was doing on albums like his debut.

And sometimes he really delivers on that type of songwriting. Are You Even Real and even Power On are both great songs like that.

Friends That Break Your Heart came off very bland to me though and I loved Assume Form

that had me so excited for the album. Felt like such a letdown

I'm surprised more long term fans don't feel that way. I thought Assume Form was him bouncing back after the Colour in Anything

Yeah I don't believe that for a second. He very actively does things on his socials and for PR that makes it clear that he's vying for a bigger album budget from his label. And those things can be mutually exclusive with just wanting to write pop songs but he spoke w fantano once 2 years ago about how he doesn't care about being people's "cool artist to talk about" anymore and I think he suffers from a lot of apathy about what its like being as wizardly as he is yet still ostracized in the grand scheme of the music industry and his relationship with the label/streaming

You're gunna try and convince me that he wouldn't rather make s*** like this? This is the best unofficial thing that he's done in 6 years imo and its clear that bits and pieces of this ended up becoming incorporated into the watered down sound of ftbyh

one of the best songs last yr

lol but who's to say what James would rather make? that seems quite arbitrary and something only james would know.

I didn't put words in anyones mouth I just said convince me

cant argue something that is rooted in nothing. only james knows what type of music he wants to make. so insinuating one way or another that there is a certain type of music he wants to make is silly.

Surely you must hear the pop music influence in his music too though?

Not just from his collaborations or even the fact he put that cover of Limit To Your Love on his first album but just in his own original songwriting.

So if it was always a part of his work it makes sense he might pivot that way eventually. Maybe he feels like he's made enough left field s*** and wanted to give more straight songwriting ago

Either way I guess what I'm trying to say is even if there are ulterior motives, writing pop songs is totally authentic to who he's been going back to his first album. I think it's as authentic as him making stuff like I Never Learnt to Share and CMYK or whatever.

If he was only interested in making the music you're talking about, the music you love from him wouldn't be as good anyway as he's always had a more classic songwriting influence too and used it even in his weirdest s***

yeah this is more of a grower then this his past works which just kinda hit immediately

Dont miss it is definitely the best since ‘19

You may have a point about retrograde but that 2013 time period was such a sweet spot for indie artists getting more crossover looks due to the way early streaming metrics were interpreted at the time, and the way the rest of that album sounds I would say THAT was the album where he wanted to explore songwriting more and, as mark fisher put it, “gradually assume form” in his music.

James has spoken pretty negatively about his debut AND overgrown and knows the first 3 albums are his most revered.

I think are you even real and power on are actually really bad showcases of his songwriting, and would speak more highly about, say, lullaby for my insomniac or ill come too than those two songs. Regardless of how I feel about Friends his songwriting definitely felt more pointed as far as a traditional album is concerned

We’re in agreement with most of what you’re saying except that what made the limit to your love cover so electrifying was that he manipulated the f*** out of the lyrics interpolation by picking out a sparse amount of song lyrics and essentially sampling the song through his own singing and looping.

In those early projects there was never as much of a pop influence as much as a rnb/soul/gospel influence as i mentioned earlier. Virtually no songwriting on his first 3 projects showcases a traditional pop formula, and he used that to his advantage to take almost a thom yorke/arthur russel-like approach to minimalism.

Im not challenging whether or not there’s an authentic part to his pop songs, he’s always been a genuine and authentic guy and I will continue to support him regardless of how I feel about his current music! But if you think that his current work is as good as his earlier stuff because you’ve metasized his songwriting to be just as authentic as the stuff he was making in his bedroom, we can agree on authenticity, and even quality from a much broader perspective but we have to agree to disagree on impact and visceralness

Being this pedantic on a music forum is cringe

take what you expect from James out of it. You think Are You Even Real is bad songwriting? That s*** is otherworldly to me. Just as good as most pop artist's best songs

the structure isn't traditional pop but I just feel like pop music influenced certain things in his melodies, approach, singing and production. He never made music that was just for musos like us. He was also set up to have more mainstream appeal than someone like Skream. Who's debut is still incredible to me, but I don't think was ever seen as an artist who could fully crossover.

Even on the first album James was never some niche artist. He was always marketed to the mainstream same way a band like the XX were in the UK around that time.

Even without thinking about the expectations he or the people around him had for his career, I just think you can hear it in the music. Something doesn't have to go verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus, to be influenced by pop music in some way. Even the R&B/soul/gospel influence you're talking about can come out in a pop way, like that influence is in most pop music. His hip hop influences made his music more poppy too. Maybe I'm not explaining what I mean by pop though, as really it's a bit of an odd genre to describe when even the classic pop artists are usually a mix of other sub genres

it's interesting you mention Thom Yorke too. I honestly prefer James to Radiohead but Radiohead are superstars in the UK Thom's a great example of how you can approach these left field sounds with some pop influence. Burial in the 2000s got so much crossover (in the UK at least) doing that too. In a way that some electronic music I like just never will. James always had sweet melodies or riffs that could bring in casual listeners as well as musos. And I think he always saw himself more in the Radiohead lane than the niche cult artist lane. He always made an effort to have songs on his albums from the start that could be some form of radio single, an artist who didn't care about pop music at all would never do that.

End of Transmission

Ever got the hate for this album