Steak

4y

two of em

eye contact

4y

There’s good convo itt and I highly recommend into looking at some actual writing as well afterwards

Idk what I’d recommend on these topics but @op and @krishna_bound are bound to have an idea

Womanpuncher69

4y

isn’t this the type of quality post we should be promoting even if it’s using a marxist’s lense the essence of the thread should be important and that’s creating a high quality post discussing how the life of the artist relates to his work even if he’s wrong or whatever it creates interesting discussion that we can learn from just reading.

honestly cookie seems like ur just being mad for the point of being mad now

LaFleur

4y

In some ways it is in some ways it isn't.

I always thought that some rap fans were insanely dumb to see rap artists as some type of messiahs. Now that Kendrick loudly admitted that he was NOT that guy maybe a portion of his fans even a small one is going to start searching for other ways to have an impact on society since their fav is telling them that music, at least in 2022, is not that place anymore.

One reaction I'm weirdly interested in for example is Kyrie's one. I'm a huge Kyrie fan but I know that he was probably hurt listening to that bar against him even though he laughed it all off saying that the song was great.
Kendrick was actually saying through him that some of his fans preaching Kendrick for being this kind of unity catalyst are the first one to divide society as soon as they can. I know that Kyrie has his reasons for not taking the vaccine and I know that you can't disconnect American history from his decision but I know that deep down that bar must've felt like a gut punch and maybe a wake up call ? Who knows

huey p rxcan

4y

kendrick can’t say s*** when the promo for this era is all about evoking jesus imagery

just comes off as corny

insertcoolnamehere

4y

^thats his gimmick bro lol

krishna bound

4y

hmm, on what topic specifically? im not fully sure actually what id recommend to read here. i can think of some tangential recommendations, like stuff on the lie of countercultures in the 60s or books talking about hero's journey or the concept of spectacle

krishna bound

4y

@Scratchin_Bandit

actual thoughts below;

I think from a detached standpoint, there's an interesting overlap here with the mythology of mainstream culture in general. I know you're coming at it from a more political angle, but I think there's another angle which I think is underexplored. Firstly, I don't usually like over-intellectualizing music or peoples' lives, but in regarsd to someone who's a celebrity making themselves a spectacle (inadvertently or otherwise), Kendrick has still put himself in a position to be looked at in this manner, at least in a comparative sense to others who's gone down the same path.

Arguably the core of western cultural mythos is the Hero's Journey, but it's rare that someone asks; what happens after the Hero's Journey? The Hero's Journey is often depicted as a cycle, but this because of the finite nature of depiction in art or media. In reality, when you extrapolate the Hero's Journey not from the art itself, but to the artist, you get a lot more interesting of a picture. Many artists go through a cycle in their music which alludes to the Hero's Journey - not just in music but any form of art. Eventually, it's after they meet their most lauded and praised albums that the real next stage of the Hero's Cycle - cynicism and loathing. In any great mythology, there's a reason the story always ends after the Return & Redemption; if someone "saved the world", would they not be responsible for then what the world has become after such? If a great hero has saved the world how can they feel anything but loathing for the inevitable imperfections of the world otherwise? Sometimes in a Hero's Journey, the journey is only about themselves, but the same thing applies - if you "save" yourself, would you not then feel responsible for what you've become down the line?

Kendrick's being wrapped up in idealism throughout the early part of his career I'm going to go out on a limb here - it's because he never go to see the end of Pac's Hero's Journey. He only saw maybe the first half. So the mythos of Pac will always be that he was destined to do great things had his life not been cut short. Contrast this with Kendrick's Christian beliefs and the importance placed on the individual within Christianity as well as the idea of attonement and such. Unlike someone like Pac however, whose mythos was continued largely toward the western equivalent of folklore and legend, Kendrick got his flowers while he was still here - he got to see what dropping an album everyone considered a culmination of idealism is, with songs like Alright which even began to be used at protests. Kendrick probably very quickly realized however following this, and following the sheer intensity of the amount of work and the level of talent, timing, luck, etc. that all went in the journey up to TPAB followed by the utterly absurd ebb and flow of social discourse in the years following - holy s*** this has done absolutely nothing of value besides satisfy people's need for entertainment. And let's look at this idea wthin the framing of like A Society of the Spectacle or a Baudrillard-type idea; it doesn't matter what the message was, or how artistic it was; the art would only ever be consumed as entertainment, and even the symbol within the culture will never truly evolve past the culture of which it has originated - it will never be "revolutionary" because of its origins. I contrast this with a similar idea - why the 60s failed to "really" change things beyond a further delve into "individualist" capitalism; did anyone think shows funded by Wallstreet Bankers & Investment Speculators (i.e. Woodstock) would ever truly be revolutionary, even if the artists believed they would be?

Now I'm going to say this from the outside, and from the perspective of how little Kendrick has involved himself in public situations - something which is obviously purposeful as it makes his art shine more. I think this genuinely broke him as he had trouble reconciling this with his idealistic view of what a person or art could achieve, but also with his own christian view of what individuals can do within the faith and the importance of such there. I think this is why the tone between TPAB and DAMN shifts so much - Kendrick starts dabbling with Israelite ideas and such, the idea that the reason his individualistic idealism isn't working is because it must be due to some greater force - like it must be a curse or something. But at the same time, Kendrick is obviously aware of the misgivings from TPAB - the idea that "okay well art didn't change s*** so I guess I may as well make it accessible". I've always felt TPAB is a hopeful album overall, but by contrast DAMN is more solemn and carries this idea of cosmic fate and things outside of the control of the individual.

But then, after DAMN, Kendrick really got to see the explosion of social discourse with stuff like Trump, COVID, BLM, etc. and I think him basically just going black out on all social was him being like "I can't take this s*** anymore". Because following that cycle, Kendrick's reflecting on himself and on how little this entity which his music has helped integrate into ("the culture") has really changed in any meaningful manner, and every piece of discourse is dictated more by arbitration and self-reference than anything actually important or meaningful. I think that's where this album comes in - he's gone through this whole cycle only to come to the conclusion not only does he literally not care anymore, but that he shouldn't have cared to begin with, because what he was trying to save or redeem was never redeemable or meaningful to begin with. I think that's why this album is also so all over the place emotionally and topically; at this point he's just writing for himself and doing what he wants and tracing his own thoughts and steps. He's saying "fuck it, consume my music if you want to. i don't care."

In the same way as I mentioned in the original release thread many other artists have done as well over their career - people like Mark Kozelek getting the point of cynicism with his fans, the media, and the world that his songs are just stream of conscious spoken word. It's not about making 15 minute epics meant to achieve a level of musical achievement anymore. It's just about them doing want they want, with the nagging cynicism of their history and the world around them. It doesn't matter necessarily if it's political, social, etc. - I think it's just clear that having gone through these journies, artists like Kendrick are tired. They know the critics have their opinions formed before they even put it out. They know what the fan reaction will be, and what "effect" it'll have on the world. So why double down on it? Instead, why not be self aware. It's a product. Listen to it if you want; I'm just doing what I want to at this point, feel free to join along.

Ooo

4y

Like I said if it were genuine and he didn’t literally bring up these things in almost every thread then sure. I asked him how to get reform when he said earlier reform was something that needed to happen. No response. Because these things have said and done many times and the solution of simply reform is not that simple. Like Kendrick hasn’t thought of these things already. If it were almost any other user making this thread then that’s absolutely fine. But I’m not gonna act like there’s not a group of users here who just “gimmick” being some freedom fighter or are apart of some communist regime. It’s annoying and I wouldn’t even really care but don’t try to call out Kendrick with this bullshit.

Tadow

4y

About to take this and "write" a Medium article

Thanks @op

Steak

4y

Okay first off, youre throwing too many big words at me. Because I don't understand them, imma take it as disrespect. Watch your mouth @op

Steak

4y

yall really typing essays in this mf

Scratchin Mamba

4y

Shoutout ktt.. shoutout ktt....

eye contact

4y

There’s good convo itt and I highly recommend into looking at some actual writing as well afterwards

Idk what I’d recommend on these topics but @op and @krishna_bound are bound to have an idea

Steak

4y

yall really typing essays in this mf

LaFleur

4y

In some ways it is in some ways it isn't.

I always thought that some rap fans were insanely dumb to see rap artists as some type of messiahs. Now that Kendrick loudly admitted that he was NOT that guy maybe a portion of his fans even a small one is going to start searching for other ways to have an impact on society since their fav is telling them that music, at least in 2022, is not that place anymore.

One reaction I'm weirdly interested in for example is Kyrie's one. I'm a huge Kyrie fan but I know that he was probably hurt listening to that bar against him even though he laughed it all off saying that the song was great.
Kendrick was actually saying through him that some of his fans preaching Kendrick for being this kind of unity catalyst are the first one to divide society as soon as they can. I know that Kyrie has his reasons for not taking the vaccine and I know that you can't disconnect American history from his decision but I know that deep down that bar must've felt like a gut punch and maybe a wake up call ? Who knows

Steak

4y

yall really typing essays in this mf

krishna bound

4y

@Scratchin_Bandit

actual thoughts below;

I think from a detached standpoint, there's an interesting overlap here with the mythology of mainstream culture in general. I know you're coming at it from a more political angle, but I think there's another angle which I think is underexplored. Firstly, I don't usually like over-intellectualizing music or peoples' lives, but in regarsd to someone who's a celebrity making themselves a spectacle (inadvertently or otherwise), Kendrick has still put himself in a position to be looked at in this manner, at least in a comparative sense to others who's gone down the same path.

Arguably the core of western cultural mythos is the Hero's Journey, but it's rare that someone asks; what happens after the Hero's Journey? The Hero's Journey is often depicted as a cycle, but this because of the finite nature of depiction in art or media. In reality, when you extrapolate the Hero's Journey not from the art itself, but to the artist, you get a lot more interesting of a picture. Many artists go through a cycle in their music which alludes to the Hero's Journey - not just in music but any form of art. Eventually, it's after they meet their most lauded and praised albums that the real next stage of the Hero's Cycle - cynicism and loathing. In any great mythology, there's a reason the story always ends after the Return & Redemption; if someone "saved the world", would they not be responsible for then what the world has become after such? If a great hero has saved the world how can they feel anything but loathing for the inevitable imperfections of the world otherwise? Sometimes in a Hero's Journey, the journey is only about themselves, but the same thing applies - if you "save" yourself, would you not then feel responsible for what you've become down the line?

Kendrick's being wrapped up in idealism throughout the early part of his career I'm going to go out on a limb here - it's because he never go to see the end of Pac's Hero's Journey. He only saw maybe the first half. So the mythos of Pac will always be that he was destined to do great things had his life not been cut short. Contrast this with Kendrick's Christian beliefs and the importance placed on the individual within Christianity as well as the idea of attonement and such. Unlike someone like Pac however, whose mythos was continued largely toward the western equivalent of folklore and legend, Kendrick got his flowers while he was still here - he got to see what dropping an album everyone considered a culmination of idealism is, with songs like Alright which even began to be used at protests. Kendrick probably very quickly realized however following this, and following the sheer intensity of the amount of work and the level of talent, timing, luck, etc. that all went in the journey up to TPAB followed by the utterly absurd ebb and flow of social discourse in the years following - holy s*** this has done absolutely nothing of value besides satisfy people's need for entertainment. And let's look at this idea wthin the framing of like A Society of the Spectacle or a Baudrillard-type idea; it doesn't matter what the message was, or how artistic it was; the art would only ever be consumed as entertainment, and even the symbol within the culture will never truly evolve past the culture of which it has originated - it will never be "revolutionary" because of its origins. I contrast this with a similar idea - why the 60s failed to "really" change things beyond a further delve into "individualist" capitalism; did anyone think shows funded by Wallstreet Bankers & Investment Speculators (i.e. Woodstock) would ever truly be revolutionary, even if the artists believed they would be?

Now I'm going to say this from the outside, and from the perspective of how little Kendrick has involved himself in public situations - something which is obviously purposeful as it makes his art shine more. I think this genuinely broke him as he had trouble reconciling this with his idealistic view of what a person or art could achieve, but also with his own christian view of what individuals can do within the faith and the importance of such there. I think this is why the tone between TPAB and DAMN shifts so much - Kendrick starts dabbling with Israelite ideas and such, the idea that the reason his individualistic idealism isn't working is because it must be due to some greater force - like it must be a curse or something. But at the same time, Kendrick is obviously aware of the misgivings from TPAB - the idea that "okay well art didn't change s*** so I guess I may as well make it accessible". I've always felt TPAB is a hopeful album overall, but by contrast DAMN is more solemn and carries this idea of cosmic fate and things outside of the control of the individual.

But then, after DAMN, Kendrick really got to see the explosion of social discourse with stuff like Trump, COVID, BLM, etc. and I think him basically just going black out on all social was him being like "I can't take this s*** anymore". Because following that cycle, Kendrick's reflecting on himself and on how little this entity which his music has helped integrate into ("the culture") has really changed in any meaningful manner, and every piece of discourse is dictated more by arbitration and self-reference than anything actually important or meaningful. I think that's where this album comes in - he's gone through this whole cycle only to come to the conclusion not only does he literally not care anymore, but that he shouldn't have cared to begin with, because what he was trying to save or redeem was never redeemable or meaningful to begin with. I think that's why this album is also so all over the place emotionally and topically; at this point he's just writing for himself and doing what he wants and tracing his own thoughts and steps. He's saying "fuck it, consume my music if you want to. i don't care."

In the same way as I mentioned in the original release thread many other artists have done as well over their career - people like Mark Kozelek getting the point of cynicism with his fans, the media, and the world that his songs are just stream of conscious spoken word. It's not about making 15 minute epics meant to achieve a level of musical achievement anymore. It's just about them doing want they want, with the nagging cynicism of their history and the world around them. It doesn't matter necessarily if it's political, social, etc. - I think it's just clear that having gone through these journies, artists like Kendrick are tired. They know the critics have their opinions formed before they even put it out. They know what the fan reaction will be, and what "effect" it'll have on the world. So why double down on it? Instead, why not be self aware. It's a product. Listen to it if you want; I'm just doing what I want to at this point, feel free to join along.