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  • May 17, 2022
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    2 replies

    It's so hard to not get carried away and think we are about to become a serious club again..

  • May 17, 2022
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    Amadou Haidara

    -Haidara normally plays as a box-to-box style midfielder in Leipzigā€™s high-energy midfield systems. Heā€™s a well-rounded player when in possession, able to link up well with team-mates as well as play defence-splitting passes when needed.

    -His defensive numbers have declined this season compared to 2020-21. Some of that is to do with Leipzigā€™s early-season malaise under Marsch and some of that is due to playing closer to the oppositionā€™s goal in the second part of the season

    Have a look at his tackling and dribbling ratings below. Haidara can play as the deepest midfielder with a bit of work but looks more like your sensible second purchase after acquiring someone else on this list first.

  • May 17, 2022
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    Manchester United are in drastic need of a rebuild. The football club that Erik ten Hag will be walking into this summer is in a creative funk, afflicted by a collective talent drain (on and off the pitch) and a general malaise that has seen the fanbase fluctuate between despair and disgust.

    Thereā€™s a finite amount of time this summer for the 52-year-old Dutchman to complete many fluid tasks. So under the adage of ā€œMany Hands Make Light Workā€, The Athletic would like to introduce you to a short series we are calling ā€œShopping for Ten Hagā€.

    All of the players included in this piece ā€” and the rest of the series ā€” will be a***ysed using smarterscout data, which gives players a rating from 0-99, relating to either how often they do a given action compared with others playing in their position (such as the ball recoveries and interceptions), or how effective they are (such as how well they progress the ball upfield).

    But before we begin, letā€™s talk about Declan Rice (and Ruben Neves)
    In March 2021, we named Declan Rice among a shortlist of holding midfielders for United and dubbed him as one of the ā€œgold standardā€ options United should be looking at.

    This year, weā€™re leaving Rice off the shortlist entirely.

    Not because he has regressed but because Riceā€™s rapid development from Chelsea academy centre-back to the lynchpin of West Hamā€™s team has seen him become more of an out-and-out central midfielder.

    The graphic above compares Riceā€™s touches on the ball per 90 minutes this season compared to 2019-20. Rice has said that former Premier League midfielders Yaya Toure and Patrick Vieira are inspirations for his development and, although he is still good at receiving the ball in his own half, he is increasingly carrying the ball from deep into left-sided areas. That is excellent for West Ham, but if Rice wishes to continue his (excellent) progress in that type of role, there are other players who are better suited to a Ten Hag midfield.

    As for Ruben Neves: heā€™s often mentioned by subscribers in the comment and Q&A sections of United articles, but has never been strongly linked with the club, hence our lack of formal write-ups. We didnā€™t include the Wolves midfielder in our 2021 shortlist for the same reason he does not feature here: we believe him to lack the mobility to work effectively within Unitedā€™s ecosystem, despite his technical qualities.

    Now letā€™s get into how a Ten Hag central midfield works
    During his time at Ajax, Ten Hag created two distinguished sides:

    The 2018-19 squad that reached the semi-finals of the Champions League in a 4-2-3-1.
    The current iteration that plays in a (staggered) 4-3-3 shape.
    The 2018-19 vintage of Ajax tended to have a central midfield partnership of Lasse Schone and Frenkie de Jong, although there were occasions during Eredivisie matches when Donny van de Beek would play next to centre-back Lisandro Martinez. Hereā€™s how all three midfielders operated in the 2018-19 season.

    Hereā€™s what the above pizza charts are telling you from how this central midfield worked:

    Schone was the sensible operator of Ajaxā€™s central midfield. Look at his high scores for ball retention and link-up play volume and then look at his high score for ball recoveries & interceptions. Schone was the tidy tackler of Ajaxā€™s midfield, sitting when his midfield partner surged forward.

    That partner tended to be De Jong, who was absurdly good in 2018-19. Look at his high score at carry & dribble volume, link-up play volume and ball retention. Ajax would often start attacks from De Jong collecting the ball from his back four before carrying it through to the edge of the oppositionā€™s penalty area.

    (De Jong is not on our shortlist of players United should look for this role, as he would benefit more from playing ahead of a defensive midfielder, rather than be that deeper player himself. The Athletic understands both Manchester clubs are monitoring the 25-year-oldā€™s situation at Barcelona, with Catalan media saying the club will listen to cash offers.)

    The current Ajax side typically sees Edson Alvarez partner Ryan Gravenberch, while a player such as Steven Berghuis roams ahead.

    Hereā€™s what the above pizza charts are telling you from how this central midfield worked:

    Alvarez is a defensive terrier in central midfield. The 24-year-old is not a ball carrier or much of a progressive passer, but he makes sensible decisions to retain possession when he has the ball and goes out of his way to win the ball back when Ajax lose it. Heā€™s got a max score for ball recoveries and aerial duels quantity, suggesting he is a busy defensive player, but his low score for defending impact suggests he is not always successful.

    Gravenberch is not as defensively secure as De Jong was in the 2018-19 side, but he has a good ball-carrying ability and greater skill at receiving the ball in the oppositionā€™s penalty area. If De Jongā€™s great talent was what he did in the first two-thirds of the pitch for Ajax, Gravenberch works in the second two-thirds.

    Then thereā€™s Berghuis, the third man of the midfield, who plays like a No 10 but often enjoys attacking the right. Weā€™ve included him here as we want to note how Ten Hag is using his most advanced midfielder. The 30-year-old is a tidy passer, but arrives late in the box (look at his score on receptions) and shoots a lot (his score on xG from shot creation).

    What does this all mean?

    Broadly speaking, a Ten Hag central midfield at Ajax has often involved one player progressing the ball from deep with vertical passes or ball carries. The other player tends to be the secure passer who regulates the pace at which the team plays. Ten Hag has been one of the more pragmatic Ajax managers in recent years and is not above having one of his holding midfielders perform as an auxiliary centre-back.

    It is also important to note that a lot of Ajaxā€™s work in holding midfield is supplemented by Daley Blind at left-back, who often moves into central areas and progresses the ball from deep with long passes. There is just enough quality from Luke Shaw and Harry Maguire to suggest this can be replicated in aggregate at United if Ten Hag has enough training time.

    What players will United have in central midfield next season?

    Paul Pogbaā€™s contract expires in June and he is more likely than not going to leave on a free transfer this summer. Nemanja Matic has already voiced his intention to leave.

    If ā€” for some reason ā€” United do not buy a central midfielder this summer they will have the following options:

    -Fred ā€” a box-to-box shuttling midfielder who is good at winning the ball, but erratic at distributing it.

    -Scott McTominay ā€” a player who has persisted in holding midfield, but looks better suited to an attacking box-to-box role.

    -James Garner ā€” who will be returning from a loan at Nottingham Forest. Garnerā€™s progression at Forest is an interesting one. Normally one of the two deeper midfielders in a 3-4-1-2, heā€™s become more of a ball carrier and progressive passer during his two-year loan. The 21-year-old looks good enough to play for someoneā€™s midfield in the Premier League next season but it remains to be seen with which team.

    If ā€” and this is a medium-sized if ā€” Ten Hag wants to replicate the style of football he played at Ajax, any midfielder coming to United will need to have some of the following:

    -The ability to retain possession when passing, to help Fred.

    -The ability to mark space well, to help McTominay/Garner.

    -The ability to pass progressively, to help with team build-up.

    -The ability to win tackles, to help the defence, particularly in preventing counter-attacks.

    I don't understand why this article, and so many others, acknowledge FDJ as having been at his best in a deeper role but then say he should be playing further forward.

    Your defensive midfielder does not always have to be a ball-winner type. For every Makelele there's a Pirlo.

    Fred is the ball winner in our team. It's literally all he's actually good at. He's the equivalent of Alvarez in the current Ajax setup. With Gravenberch, who the article acknowledges is a weaker player than FDJ, and Berghuis/Bruno.

  • kttmz šŸ’›
    May 17, 2022
    DwindlingSun

    I don't understand why this article, and so many others, acknowledge FDJ as having been at his best in a deeper role but then say he should be playing further forward.

    Your defensive midfielder does not always have to be a ball-winner type. For every Makelele there's a Pirlo.

    Fred is the ball winner in our team. It's literally all he's actually good at. He's the equivalent of Alvarez in the current Ajax setup. With Gravenberch, who the article acknowledges is a weaker player than FDJ, and Berghuis/Bruno.

    Ajax in 18/19 didn't had any ball-winner, they played with FDJ, Schƶne and VDB. So it's not necessary, except then you can't have a striker like Ronaldo playing because the 3 up front are essential in pressing.

  • May 17, 2022
    KingOfPop

    It's so hard to not get carried away and think we are about to become a serious club again..

    Yeah I have a feeling we just getting set up for disappointment again šŸ˜”

  • May 17, 2022

    Also itā€™s gonna be interesting to see at what time everybody is going to switch on EtH after a bad run of games

  • @Jason_Waterfalls showcasing why the athletic is goat

  • May 18, 2022
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    1 reply
    DwindlingSun

    I don't understand why this article, and so many others, acknowledge FDJ as having been at his best in a deeper role but then say he should be playing further forward.

    Your defensive midfielder does not always have to be a ball-winner type. For every Makelele there's a Pirlo.

    Fred is the ball winner in our team. It's literally all he's actually good at. He's the equivalent of Alvarez in the current Ajax setup. With Gravenberch, who the article acknowledges is a weaker player than FDJ, and Berghuis/Bruno.

    You're neglecting the fact next to Pirlo was either Gattuso and Seedorf at Milan, or Marchisio and Vidal at Juve. Your ignoring the players around Pirlo that let Pirlo be Pirlo.
    Unless you're dumping Bruno or dropping a forward, a regista type holding midfielder won't translate as well as you'd think.

  • May 18, 2022
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    1 reply
    Villainous B

    You're neglecting the fact next to Pirlo was either Gattuso and Seedorf at Milan, or Marchisio and Vidal at Juve. Your ignoring the players around Pirlo that let Pirlo be Pirlo.
    Unless you're dumping Bruno or dropping a forward, a regista type holding midfielder won't translate as well as you'd think.

    Did you just not read the final paragraph then

  • May 18, 2022
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    Fabian Ruiz

    Ruiz is a man of a thousand short passes. His high scores for link-up play volume and ball retention ability suggest a player who favours sensible short passes to nearby team-mates rather than potential line-breaking ones. That sort of security in possession is of value to a team like United right now.

    The 26-year-old is more of a one-v-one defender, attempting to tackle the man in possession when needed, rather than someone who launches out of position as part of a counter-press.

    Interestingly, for a player who is 6ft 2in, heā€™s not great in the air. Ruiz is paired best with an energetic ball-winner, so he can focus on his precise passing.

    !https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXf3dd90M_Y

    If we canā€™t get Frenkie Iā€™d love Fabian Ruiz. He canā€™t dribble in the same way FDJ can but like the stats show heā€™s a master short passer. Someone to retain the ball is massively missing in midfield

  • May 18, 2022
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    1 reply
    DwindlingSun

    Did you just not read the final paragraph then

    Selling Fredj short

  • May 18, 2022
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    KingOfPop

    It's so hard to not get carried away and think we are about to become a serious club again..

    -ronaldo wants to stay and make the club big again
    -ETH skipped holidays to work early w united
    -Ralf in goated position at the club

    IF we manage to sign good players to fill the holes this squad has ion see why we shouldnā€™t be a threat to the top 3, i can see ronaldo scoring 30 PL goals in a good system under ETH

  • May 18, 2022
    ovovaIe

    -ronaldo wants to stay and make the club big again
    -ETH skipped holidays to work early w united
    -Ralf in goated position at the club

    IF we manage to sign good players to fill the holes this squad has ion see why we shouldnā€™t be a threat to the top 3, i can see ronaldo scoring 30 PL goals in a good system under ETH

    He'll be 39 by the time next season ends right? How can anyone doubt he is the greatest of all time..

  • May 18, 2022
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    1 reply
    Villainous B

    Selling Fredj short

    He excels out of possession, he's mediocre-bad in possession

  • Oblivion šŸ‡¹šŸ‡­
    May 18, 2022

    Ronaldo and ralf is not here to fix our problem they just here collecting wage

  • May 18, 2022
    Ā·
    2 replies
    ovovaIe

    -ronaldo wants to stay and make the club big again
    -ETH skipped holidays to work early w united
    -Ralf in goated position at the club

    IF we manage to sign good players to fill the holes this squad has ion see why we shouldnā€™t be a threat to the top 3, i can see ronaldo scoring 30 PL goals in a good system under ETH

    A good system wouldn't have him scoring 30 goals, in this day and age.
    In the same way Bruno doesn't start for pretty much everyone above united, or why Grealish's Aston Villa numbers haven't translated at City.
    A good system isn't funneling its attacking output to a single player. Especially when there glaring holes to what he does in the different phases of play.

  • May 18, 2022
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    DwindlingSun

    He excels out of possession, he's mediocre-bad in possession

    Still selling him short, guy's not a world beater by any means, but he makes for a good box to box midfielder, a jack of all trades, master of none type beat. Spending the last 4 years mostly being played out of position hasn't done him any favours either.

  • May 18, 2022
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    Villainous B

    Still selling him short, guy's not a world beater by any means, but he makes for a good box to box midfielder, a jack of all trades, master of none type beat. Spending the last 4 years mostly being played out of position hasn't done him any favours either.

    Just sounds like you're saying the same thing I am without saying it.

    Playing him out of position (as a 6) did him no favours precisely cause he's not very good in possession. He's not comfortable receiving the ball under pressure and he's too conservative with his passing.

    If he was a jack of all trades then by definition he would have been relatively competent playing at 6.

    He's got some of the highest stats for ball recoveries simply because he's a ball-winning midfielder.

    Also, box to box midfielders are expected to contribute goals. Fred is s*** at shooting.

  • May 18, 2022
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    imagine signing a midfielder this summer

  • May 18, 2022

    Fred has looked a lot better playing further forward in the few games he was allowed to do that this season.

    I'm intrigued as to how good he can be with a solid and consistent DM behind him

  • May 18, 2022
    delete deleted

    imagine signing a midfielder this summer

  • May 19, 2022
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    Villainous B

    A good system wouldn't have him scoring 30 goals, in this day and age.
    In the same way Bruno doesn't start for pretty much everyone above united, or why Grealish's Aston Villa numbers haven't translated at City.
    A good system isn't funneling its attacking output to a single player. Especially when there glaring holes to what he does in the different phases of play.

    ??? Salah has like 35 goal contributions in the prem this season. Mane also has loads. Youā€™re just talking nonsense again. You can have more then one player getting loads of goal contributions.

  • May 19, 2022
    M a r b l e

    ??? Salah has like 35 goal contributions in the prem this season. Mane also has loads. Youā€™re just talking nonsense again. You can have more then one player getting loads of goal contributions.

    In not saying a player can't have world class goal contributions, rather to get around that 30 goal mark for Ronaldo, you're not going to have a good system, because you'd have to essentially be funneling the ball to a player that doesn't really contribute outside of what happens in and around the area.
    Bruno had world class output on joining united, because Ole had a system to achieve that, but the system itself wasn't great because of its overreliance on funneling the ball to a single player. If you're going to get that man goals from Ronaldo you're going to do the same thing.
    Players like Salah score loads in part because the goal burden is actually very well distributed, among the squad. The goal is hardly to get the ball to Salah or ManƩ in any one phase of play. And they're both fairly involved in pretty much everything Liverpool do be it pressing or build up play. Ronaldo doesn't really offer much of either of those things.

  • May 19, 2022
    DwindlingSun

    Just sounds like you're saying the same thing I am without saying it.

    Playing him out of position (as a 6) did him no favours precisely cause he's not very good in possession. He's not comfortable receiving the ball under pressure and he's too conservative with his passing.

    If he was a jack of all trades then by definition he would have been relatively competent playing at 6.

    He's got some of the highest stats for ball recoveries simply because he's a ball-winning midfielder.

    Also, box to box midfielders are expected to contribute goals. Fred is s*** at shooting.

    Fred has 8 direct goal contributions(4G,4A) this season, not sure what narrative you're trying to push there, those are decent numbers from midfield. Do not sure what you're trying to say there.
    He's not great at receiving the ball from defenders because that was never supposed to be his role to begin with him putting in a good defensive shift shouldn't simply translate to playing deeper,Kante is the best at that sort of stuff, and he's not being played as the deepest midfielder that often.
    He's a decent player is all I'll say really

  • May 19, 2022
    Villainous B

    A good system wouldn't have him scoring 30 goals, in this day and age.
    In the same way Bruno doesn't start for pretty much everyone above united, or why Grealish's Aston Villa numbers haven't translated at City.
    A good system isn't funneling its attacking output to a single player. Especially when there glaring holes to what he does in the different phases of play.

    we will wait and seeā€¦