The holy grail, of something white

nihilists corny

This thread doesn’t matter, neither does this post

But it posits itself as some kind of universal truth. When you say “life is meaningless”, you make a categorical claim that shall encompass everything that is real. Therefore, nihilism is inherently contradicting itself.

yeah someone defo misinterpreted Nietzsche

think of it logically, our brain creates meaning, without our brains nothing matters because we won't be able to experience it from the outside pov. i do think we have meaning as humans, the butterfly effect. we alter the future of our familys/friends lives whenever we hang out with them, when they think about us, etc

I'm a pessimist

I think you’re making an unfair claim. There’s a difference between A) claiming that there are no truths whatsoever (as in, there is no underlying meaning or logic to reality) and B) claiming that there isn’t a universal meaning in a moral sense (the claim that existential nihilism makes).

You’re saying that nihilism’s central premise becomes a form of meaning by being stated, therefore contradicting claim A by becoming a truth. But nihilism (or at least, existential nihilism) is not concerned with claim A as much as it is with claim B. It can become a ‘truth’ while still existing as a rejection of human-focused attempts to create meaning and morality in a cold, meaningless (from the perspective of human morals) universe.

Stating that there isn’t a universal meaning to human existence can be argued to be a truth in the form of claim A, yes, but that does not defeat its rebuttal to claim B. You can reject human morality and meaning, embracing the absurd, without rejecting ALL meaning.

this is the POINT of nihilism (except the part where you create your own meaning, nihilists would reject that as futile) It’s not to give up and accept death, but to learn how to live in a world where death is certain and life is meaningless - where in two hundred, one thousand, or ten million years, there will be nothing remaining of you or any evidence you even existed.

Internet: the thread

grow up

imagine cucking yourself out of existing

Nihilism explicitly rejects suicide (assuming that’s what you’re talking about). The prevention of suicide as an answer to life’s meaninglessness is the most important aspect of nihilism.

Let’s keep it simple.
Truth = meaning. You can’t make a categorical claim without making a meaningful claim. If a meaningful claim that is also categorical exists, nihilism can’t exist as a categorical statement.

If you don’t reject all meaning and that there some objects which are meaningful to you, that makes you an existentialist. Existentialism is about finding/creating/embracing meaningfulness with your own decisions and freedom.

na i didnt mean suicide if anything i mean like a psychlogical/emotional death

Going through life without needing floating white man in the sky bedtime stories to be a decent human being >>>

Isn’t learning and coping to live in a meaningless world itself a purpose?

There’s a couple different ways I could respond to this, but I’ll say this: the problem with your argument is that it’s basically a language game that doesn’t engage with nihilism itself. Even if I were to accept your argument, the language we use to construct nihilism’s premises might fall apart, but nihilism’s claim would not.

Even if the statement ‘as far as we know, human life has no meaning’ was proved to be categorically true and meaningful, this in itself is NOT a rebuttal of nihilism. It’s a reinforcement of its central point.

“The meaning of human existence is that it has no meaning” is not a solution or a rebuttal to nihilism. It’s just a fun language puzzle.

Also existential nihilism is a form of nihilism. It simply doesn’t have this paradox at all. Similarly, moral or ethical nihilism is not concerned with whether there is no universal truth - just with whether there are universal human values.

It can be a purpose, but it’s not a meaning. Acknowledging the meaninglessness of life but continuing to strive for a meaningful and vibrant life, even knowing that it’s completely pointless, creates a situation called the Absurd.

I think most people in life, regardless of whether or not they study nihilism, face this central paradox of life at some point. It’s more or less impossible for us to actually give up on searching for a purpose in life, but it’s equally impossible to us to get an answer.

The benefit of religion is that it defeats this claim completely. If you believe in Heaven then you have no reason to question the meaning of life. You can question why God has created human suffering, or why bad people prosper while good people starve, but the framework to answering and solving those questions is all contained within every religion.

But since more and more people today consider themselves atheist, it can be helpful to study nihilism, as it’s mostly concerned with how to live in a world without God.

Does nihilism always view suicide this way?Why would suicide be interpreted as an answer to life’s meaning in every scenario it happens?

If there’s no meaning, nothing you do matters which includes suicide. Someone is simply doing an action.

I guess what you’re implying is suicide due to someone believing there’s no purpose in anything. Where this causes them to carry out the action. But someone can just carry out the act and have no reasoning for it.

I'm not sure if it's possible to carry out an action without at least an unconscious or animal reasoning or purpose for it. Isn't the reasoning for every suicide the conclusion that "life is no longer worth living"? That's what a nihilist would say. Even if someone committing suicide does without seriously laying out a logical chain of thought for their action, that still has to be the unconscious reason for it, because otherwise they wouldn't do it, right? (not trying to trivialize people's individual reasons for suicide).

The question of whether or not to commit suicide is nihilism's most important question (some people, like Camus, believe it's the most important question of philosophy in general). Different philosophers have different answers to this question.

Camus believes that you can be happy and content by embracing life's meaninglessness and striving onward regardless. Instead of finding despair in how absurd existence is, you can punch existence in the face and live as much as you can while you're still able. If you reject the hope of finding meaning in life, you can also reject the despair you gain by never finding it. In this sense, suicide is never the best action to take - you can always embrace the absurd and begin to truly live.

A lot of people disagree with nihilism's claims and with Camus, but since this is the nihilism thread I'm approaching things from his point of view because I'm the most familiar with it. There is also a lot of overlap with nihilism and political philosophies, like anarchism.

The way I personally see it is that there is no universal meaning of life, but rather meaning itself is subjective. Like you said, for centuries the meaning of life was answered completely by religion for the vast majority of the world population. Even then, though, the answer was different from person to person depending on religious belief, but to each person it was the correct answer nonetheless. But as people begin falling out of religion, for better or for worse, the answer to that question for each person is being lost. So it is up to each person to create that concrete meaning, or for a new philosophy of life to be adopted by society that answers these questions.

But nihilism? You seem have a pretty firm grasp on it to the degree that you don’t let it weigh you down, just from seeing the way you post about it here, but the same can’t be said for most. To learn and accept that meaning doesn’t exist is depressing. Creating and strictly adhering to your own meaning is far more fulfilling than merely learning to cope with a meaningless world. And you can call it absurd, because we’ll all die and be forgotten anyways, but then there’s Marcus Aurelius, who found his meaning through philosophy and leadership and is one of the most celebrated leaders in history. Or Michelangelo, who found his meaning through art and whose works have become symbols of human achievement and culture. But even then, if you find meaning and an authentic goal and never become recognized, what does that matter? The meaning wasn’t for others, it was for overcoming challenges and feeling fulfilled with your achievements. So what if you’re forgotten a million years from now? So what if we all die? So what if people call you absurd? The question is how do we live our lives while being alive, and though admittedly I’ve surely read a lot less about nihilism than I assume you have, it doesn’t answer the question of how to live beyond merely coping with nothingness.