TragedyBerlusconi

4y

That's bullshit it was worse up until 2014

Still bad but definitely improved

Scratchin Mamba

4y

I guess if you consider letting Nazi militias collaborate with the police to drive Romas out of Kiev an improvement

TragedyBerlusconi

4y

Wonder how the crimean tatars feel

Temporary chaos and loss of control isn't the same as increased endemic corruption

Scratchin Mamba

4y

What does that have to do with anything lol

That was Stalin

But if u mean to say that Crimea should be given to Turkey i agree

TragedyBerlusconi

4y

The tatars are being heavy oppressed in crimea, and had it much better in ukraine

TragedyBerlusconi

4y

The tatars are being heavy oppressed in crimea, and had it much better in ukraine

Scratchin Mamba

4y

Well yeah we're talking about the interests of the people in the country, and even with Iran that only lasted for about 2 decades

TragedyBerlusconi

4y

That's bullshit it was worse up until 2014

Still bad but definitely improved

americana

4y

https://kiis.com.ua/materials/pr/20161602_corruption/Corruption%20in%20Ukraine%202015%20ENG.pdf

The Kyiv Institute of Sociology:

1.1. After the events of 2014–2015, we can see decreasing levels of trust in authorities at all levels compared to 2011 which may be due to citizens’ unmet expectations of drastic changes in the coun- try. Similarly to all the preceding research stages, leading by the level of trust are local authorities that people usually have closer contact with (17.6% of respondents would rather trust local authorities compared to 20.1% in 2011). Next is the President with His Administration, though this governing in- stitution is trusted by little more than 10% of re- spondents (in 2011, President Yanukovych was trusted by 14.0%).
1.2. Despite the generally low level of trust in the governmental institutions, the population of Ukraine still views national authorities as the most responsible for addressing corruption. Like in all the preceding years of monitoring this issue, in 2015 most respondents place major responsi- bility for anticorruption activity on the President of Ukraine (60.6%), the Parliament, i.e. Verkhovna Rada (41.7%) and the Government, i.e. the Cabinet of Ministers (37.7%).
1.3. The part of people placing major respon- sibility for addressing corruption on usual citizens is steadily growing (from 15.8% in 2007 to 18.0% in 2011 and up to 24.0% in 2015). A higher level of civ- ic conscientiousness is seen in younger categories of the population (those under 45) and women are more conscientious even in the oldest age group, while aging men tend to place this responsibility on anyone but citizens themselves.
1.4. Not more than 14% of people believe that authority representatives are willing to fight cor-
ruption. Compared to 2011, this indicator is some- what lower for every level and branch of power. First of all, people believe in the willingness of local authorities (13.2%) and the President (12.3%).
1.5. The most thematic of all the issues suggest- ed for evaluation is the military operation in the east of Ukraine, which causes serious concern in 97% of respondents. Somewhat lower rated is the problem of high living costs (95%) traditionally seen as the most topical on the preceding stages of the study. The issue of corruption in everyday life is among the three leading ones (94.4%), though its particular case of corrupt authorities is nearly as serious (93.8%).

americana

4y

https://kiis.com.ua/materials/pr/20161602_corruption/Corruption%20in%20Ukraine%202015%20ENG.pdf

The Kyiv Institute of Sociology:

1.1. After the events of 2014–2015, we can see decreasing levels of trust in authorities at all levels compared to 2011 which may be due to citizens’ unmet expectations of drastic changes in the coun- try. Similarly to all the preceding research stages, leading by the level of trust are local authorities that people usually have closer contact with (17.6% of respondents would rather trust local authorities compared to 20.1% in 2011). Next is the President with His Administration, though this governing in- stitution is trusted by little more than 10% of re- spondents (in 2011, President Yanukovych was trusted by 14.0%).
1.2. Despite the generally low level of trust in the governmental institutions, the population of Ukraine still views national authorities as the most responsible for addressing corruption. Like in all the preceding years of monitoring this issue, in 2015 most respondents place major responsi- bility for anticorruption activity on the President of Ukraine (60.6%), the Parliament, i.e. Verkhovna Rada (41.7%) and the Government, i.e. the Cabinet of Ministers (37.7%).
1.3. The part of people placing major respon- sibility for addressing corruption on usual citizens is steadily growing (from 15.8% in 2007 to 18.0% in 2011 and up to 24.0% in 2015). A higher level of civ- ic conscientiousness is seen in younger categories of the population (those under 45) and women are more conscientious even in the oldest age group, while aging men tend to place this responsibility on anyone but citizens themselves.
1.4. Not more than 14% of people believe that authority representatives are willing to fight cor-
ruption. Compared to 2011, this indicator is some- what lower for every level and branch of power. First of all, people believe in the willingness of local authorities (13.2%) and the President (12.3%).
1.5. The most thematic of all the issues suggest- ed for evaluation is the military operation in the east of Ukraine, which causes serious concern in 97% of respondents. Somewhat lower rated is the problem of high living costs (95%) traditionally seen as the most topical on the preceding stages of the study. The issue of corruption in everyday life is among the three leading ones (94.4%), though its particular case of corrupt authorities is nearly as serious (93.8%).

krishna bound

4y

this is a bit of a strange case though because the country lead is essentially pleading to become a foreign puppet not gonna speak on if the people themselves are receptive of that, but they're clearly even less receptive of the opposition. so the US wouldn't really be arming a counter-opposition guerilla or rebel force like the usually do.
I can't think of many other examples of the US doing this really in modern history. the closest thing I can think of is the US supporting Morocco against the European Protectorate during the Tangier Crisis? Gulf War I guess to some extent?

Scratchin Mamba

4y

Rojava

TragedyBerlusconi

4y

This is not proof of extreme corruption, this is proof of public opinion RE corruption

You can believe an institution has become more corrupt and it's valid and sad when trust is lost

However that isn't proof that corruption increased

MyBallsAndMyWord

4y

So since February of 2022, you take every mainstream western publications word on Ukraine as gospel. But when - for the past 10+ years previous - they said it is one of the most corrupt nations on earth, they were lying?

TragedyBerlusconi

4y

It was one of the most corrupt nations on earth pre Maidan as well. A 3 or so percentage rise in PERCEIVED corruption is a drop in the bucket

MyBallsAndMyWord

4y

Okay so it’s always been a corrupt s***hole lol no s***

So what on earth makes you think it’s some sort of bastion of democracy

MyBallsAndMyWord

4y

Okay so it’s always been a corrupt s***hole lol no s***

So what on earth makes you think it’s some sort of bastion of democracy

americana

4y

He still thinks we’re pro Russian that’s why he’s trying to dispel the idea that Russian-puppet Ukraine wasn’t corrupt (something we already know)

leif erikson

4y

yall are real clowns putting this conversation into absurd every time. first, one ya dweebs said that after maidan ukraine became more corrupted with no proofs except a survey that shows nothing. when op and i made counterpoints (and the situation is actually opposed of that) yall switched the topic "WELL WE ALREADY KNOW THAT UKRAINE WAS ALWAYS CORRUPTED". i ask again: are you really that stupid, americana?

americana

4y

The entire argument was that post-Maiden Ukraine was somehow less corrupt and more democratic

Which isn’t true, as we had proven

leif erikson

4y

what you had proven dweeb? that survey is more about trust and doesn't actually show that the country became more corrupted

americana

4y

It’s not about it becoming more corrupt, but obviously it didn’t become less corrupt

leif erikson

4y

· edited

the system didn't change drastically, but i've already told you what changed

this is really a false statement showing you know nothing about the life there and the how it was before 2014, especially in small business segment. the fact that the west paid more attention at corruption in ukraine after that doesn't mean it became more corrupted. after maidan bribes stopped working that easy in all fields, somewhere the prices just went up, somewhere there was actual hunt for corrupters. ukraine remained corrupted as divided oligarchy was there, but it was an actual shift from post-soviet racketeering system. when yanukovych was a president small business was pain in the ass and i know what i'm talking about. it got racketeered by government heavily like in russia

Scratchin Mamba

4y

Okay and the Russian population has in turn been oppressed by Ukraine, in much more sever ways than Tatars have faced, at least now, not during Stalin

And the Crimean Tatars are probably not exactly benefitting from Ukraine cutting off 90% of the Crimean fresh water supply either