Aug 23, 2022·editedTragedyBerlusconiRegardless of how russia moves, ukraine has a stronger government now and consolidated control over the centre. They're never getting puppet ukrsine
Time to bring them into nato when war is over
ukraine would be quite powerful ally in nato tbh. i've never seen ukraine as militaristic country at the slightest before russian invasion in 2014, but today there is no other option
also most of zelenzky team should be disbanded after the war
Aug 23, 2022SEGA GOONLiving rentfree (just as Mao intended)
- Aug 23, 2022
- Aug 23, 2022
right. they all are infirm crones
- Aug 23, 2022
no one (within the right mind) really cares about Dugin in terms of power/influence except for media people or pundits. the reason Dugin comes up in conversation has nothing to do with him as a influential political figure, it's that he represents certain ideas common in radical political circles elsewhere, even if disparate from him specifically.
The eastern bloc-aligned terroris partiesin Italy (not FN they support ukraine lol) & BNP in the UK are examples of groups which have ideas cited from him and/or overlapping ideas. People like Bannon in the US care a lot about him for example, and given the influence of people like Bannon across Europe & US (among radical right groups), people think of Dugin more as an originator of certain ideas than they do an active political figure. I don't really think Dugin is some puppet master or anything, or any real active political figure (in Russia itself, no less), but he has influence elsewhere (direct or indirect)on people who definitely are actual political actors - Aug 23, 2022
I definitely agree that targeting a mid-high level official like Rogozin would have been both morally superior and also a more effective way of advancing these goals
- Aug 23, 2022SEGA GOON
She shouldn't have died, but being a good writer and an agent talking head sock puppet of a fascist state are two different things
- Aug 23, 2022·1 reply
The Russians have lost 80k troops in this war per US estimates
If true, that's more lost in 6 months than were lost in the entire Soviet-Afghan war
Let your boys come home Mr Putin and stop sending them to their unfair end
- Aug 23, 2022·1 replyTragedyBerlusconi
The Russians have lost 80k troops in this war per US estimates
If true, that's more lost in 6 months than were lost in the entire Soviet-Afghan war
Let your boys come home Mr Putin and stop sending them to their unfair end
80k would be a high end estimate for what I’ve seen, but to contextualize the US lost ~4,000 in Iraq, ~50-60k in ‘Nam. The Russians are clearly following the old Russian doctrine of relying on manpower and throwing bodies at the enemy. Problem is they are a dying society, and no longer have the massive population they once had as the USSR, so it doesn’t work, and they have to send 50 year olds to the front lines. They’ve also lost a third of their tanks, which is huge, and coupled with their inability to produce more due to Western sanctions, is the single biggest benefit I can think of to the Western interest for our involvement in this conflict.
- Aug 23, 2022Plankton
80k would be a high end estimate for what I’ve seen, but to contextualize the US lost ~4,000 in Iraq, ~50-60k in ‘Nam. The Russians are clearly following the old Russian doctrine of relying on manpower and throwing bodies at the enemy. Problem is they are a dying society, and no longer have the massive population they once had as the USSR, so it doesn’t work, and they have to send 50 year olds to the front lines. They’ve also lost a third of their tanks, which is huge, and coupled with their inability to produce more due to Western sanctions, is the single biggest benefit I can think of to the Western interest for our involvement in this conflict.
Nah sanctions are just there to punish innocent people and have no impact on the war effort that justifies them silly c**
- Aug 23, 2022·1 reply
the US has sent so many weapons to ukraine that domestic stockpiles have essentially been depleted. stockpiles may take decades to replenish, and in turn, military contractors such as Lockheed & Raytheon are making billions from money being funneled to them by the US government, while simultaneously not even promising they can actually return on shipments or replenish stockpiles in any decent matter of time.
similarly, almost $54B has been sent in military aid to ukraine (source: nytimes.com/interactive/2022/05/20/upshot/ukraine-us-aid-size.html - and this was as of LAST MAY. who knows what's been sent now). European aid, by comparison, has essentially been a fraction of this despite this being Europe's war. most assistant from Europe comes from the UK at a whopping 2.5B, less than 1% of what the US has provided, with even Germany, the supposed spearhead of the EU and biggest economy on the continent, at a whopping 0.05% of what the US has contributed. once again Europe, while somehow STILL destroying it over this, is completely reliant on the US to do everything for them both, while meanwhile the US gets nothing from this except a fruitless proxy war, while meanwhile yet again quality of life in this country continues to do nothing but decline.
- Aug 23, 2022·2 replieskrishna bound
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a39946577/us-to-replace-javelin-stinger-missile-stockpiles-sent-to-ukraine/
the US has sent so many weapons to ukraine that domestic stockpiles have essentially been depleted. stockpiles may take decades to replenish, and in turn, military contractors such as Lockheed & Raytheon are making billions from money being funneled to them by the US government, while simultaneously not even promising they can actually return on shipments or replenish stockpiles in any decent matter of time.
similarly, almost $54B has been sent in military aid to ukraine (source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/05/20/upshot/ukraine-us-aid-size.html - and this was as of LAST MAY. who knows what's been sent now). European aid, by comparison, has essentially been a fraction of this despite this being Europe's war. most assistant from Europe comes from the UK at a whopping 2.5B, less than 1% of what the US has provided, with even Germany, the supposed spearhead of the EU and biggest economy on the continent, at a whopping 0.05% of what the US has contributed. once again Europe, while somehow STILL destroying it over this, is completely reliant on the US to do everything for them both, while meanwhile the US gets nothing from this except a fruitless proxy war, while meanwhile yet again quality of life in this country continues to do nothing but decline.
I wouldn't trust most of mainland Europe to defend their mother's with unity and strength
Us quality of life would also be in decline form this
Conflict is inevitable. We all lose when nascent democratic projects are squashed by fascists. It's necessary
Not standing up to Russia would set a precedent way more damaging to both Europe and the US
- Aug 23, 2022·2 repliesTragedyBerlusconi
I wouldn't trust most of mainland Europe to defend their mother's with unity and strength
Us quality of life would also be in decline form this
Conflict is inevitable. We all lose when nascent democratic projects are squashed by fascists. It's necessary
Not standing up to Russia would set a precedent way more damaging to both Europe and the US
why is mainland Europe the US's problem? Every time there's a military alliance, Europe basically does f*** all while the US foots the bill for everything, and then Europe still complains that the US isn't doing enough. If they're too weak and disorganized to fix their own issues that's not the issue of the US. Especially when countries like Germany are stupid enough to disable nuclear power or become dependent on the exports of a supposed geopolitical adversary.
- Aug 23, 2022·1 replyTragedyBerlusconi
I wouldn't trust most of mainland Europe to defend their mother's with unity and strength
Us quality of life would also be in decline form this
Conflict is inevitable. We all lose when nascent democratic projects are squashed by fascists. It's necessary
Not standing up to Russia would set a precedent way more damaging to both Europe and the US
just saw you edited what you said. Conflict is inevitable to the degree that yes, you can't control outside actors, but how you respond to actors casts a shadow of consequence, and conflict is not a straightforward call and response. Would you say quality of life has not already declined in the US over the past 1-2 years on an even more exacerbated trajectory? What do you think would differ if the US didn't weasel its way into an extended proxy conflict?
- Aug 23, 2022·2 replieskrishna bound
why is mainland Europe the US's problem? Every time there's a military alliance, Europe basically does f*** all while the US foots the bill for everything, and then Europe still complains that the US isn't doing enough. If they're too weak and disorganized to fix their own issues that's not the issue of the US. Especially when countries like Germany are stupid enough to disable nuclear power or become dependent on the exports of a supposed geopolitical adversary.
oh i entirely agree with you. I'm British-Italian so no one is in a better place to watch the incompetence and negligence of old europe than I
It isnt the US problem really, however the US vested interest ultimately comes down to realism. The US cannot allow it's rivals to gain power in europe, as the downstream effect is this power will continue to increase as they are emboldened by set precedents. The EU is a huge market for US goods and services. Sure it may not seem that important right now, but more russian power in europe means a europe ever more dependent on russia, and soon china, and diminished us power. with diminished us power comes less us clout, and long story short, us living standards fall more. It's self interested sure, i agree, but that's what it is.
As a british person and someone with brain cells, im grateful for what america does to keep the continent safe but totally understand why youre sick of it. It's only Britain, the Baltics and Poland that really get the necessity of keeping Russia at bay. Germans want cheap gas and the french still havent forgiven us both for saving them.
- Aug 23, 2022·1 replyTragedyBerlusconi
oh i entirely agree with you. I'm British-Italian so no one is in a better place to watch the incompetence and negligence of old europe than I
It isnt the US problem really, however the US vested interest ultimately comes down to realism. The US cannot allow it's rivals to gain power in europe, as the downstream effect is this power will continue to increase as they are emboldened by set precedents. The EU is a huge market for US goods and services. Sure it may not seem that important right now, but more russian power in europe means a europe ever more dependent on russia, and soon china, and diminished us power. with diminished us power comes less us clout, and long story short, us living standards fall more. It's self interested sure, i agree, but that's what it is.
As a british person and someone with brain cells, im grateful for what america does to keep the continent safe but totally understand why youre sick of it. It's only Britain, the Baltics and Poland that really get the necessity of keeping Russia at bay. Germans want cheap gas and the french still havent forgiven us both for saving them.
I disagree with that mainly because what do they think is going to happen? You realize that the US had a free trade agreement with Russia and Russia had preferred trade partner status prior to this, right, even in lieu of Crimea, Ossetia, etc. ? Do you think Russia is just going to steamroll Europe and replace all of their governments with puppet governments that aren't allowed to trade with the US, even though Russia themselves didn't even do that domestically? The part about the EU as a market for the US doesn't really change anything unless you somehow think Russia was going to literally vaporize the EU.
Even if it did, the EU is in the same position regardless thanks to their incompetence with their now falling currency + power issues + inflated prices, etc., so much that US companies are hesitant to do business with the EU due to the weakened EUR. The GBP is expected to have insane inflation next year due to the UK's horrible fiscal monetary policy (mostly unrelated to this, but similar predicaments) so you will likely see the same thing there. - Aug 23, 2022·1 replykrishna bound
just saw you edited what you said. Conflict is inevitable to the degree that yes, you can't control outside actors, but how you respond to actors casts a shadow of consequence, and conflict is not a straightforward call and response. Would you say quality of life has not already declined in the US over the past 1-2 years on an even more exacerbated trajectory? What do you think would differ if the US didn't weasel its way into an extended proxy conflict?
if the us didnt support ukraine, i see this happening:
Russia takes ukraine swiftly:
-if russia succeeds in capturing Kyiv, Zelensky is killed. Ukraine becomes Belarus 2.0.
-If Kyiv withstands, Russia just grabs the donbass and entire south coast as well as Zaporizhia, creating a bridge to Transnistria. Black Sea is now a Russian pond.In both scenario, Russia is emboldened and gains greater control over gas, grain and the sea. As the US will not have done anything to help Ukraine, NATO allies confidence in the US (besides France and Germany, the poles and baltics begin to s*** their pants).
The result is even greater disunity within nato and the eu becomes more dependent on Russia irrespective of public opinion nor whether they want to be. Russia now holds even greater leverage that they will use. If NATO ceases to be a functional alliance (which may not happen but likely will, as an America unwilling to get involved is likely to be an America unwilling to continue its role), you will then sea Russia move on the Baltics, bridging to Kaliningrad, and perhaps even Poland. Of course this wont happen quickly, but NATO is absolutely the body that has prevented worse cases of Russian aggression. There is no democratic peace with an undemocratic adversary.
Elsewhere, China is emboldened to move on Taiwan. If they get it before any kind of CHIPS act, boom, China now has the tech sector by the balls. Down the global living standards go, and yet another precedent is set.
- Aug 23, 2022·1 replykrishna bound
I disagree with that mainly because what do they think is going to happen? You realize that the US had a free trade agreement with Russia and Russia had preferred trade partner status prior to this, right, even in lieu of Crimea, Ossetia, etc. ? Do you think Russia is just going to steamroll Europe and replace all of their governments with puppet governments that aren't allowed to trade with the US, even though Russia themselves didn't even do that domestically? The part about the EU as a market for the US doesn't really change anything unless you somehow think Russia was going to literally vaporize the EU.
Even if it did, the EU is in the same position regardless thanks to their incompetence with their now falling currency + power issues + inflated prices, etc., so much that US companies are hesitant to do business with the EU due to the weakened EUR. The GBP is expected to have insane inflation next year due to the UK's horrible fiscal monetary policy (mostly unrelated to this, but similar predicaments) so you will likely see the same thing there.No i dont believe this, however i can plausibly believe russia will gain ever greater leverage over europe which will translate to greater political influence.
And of course Russia would have preferred trade partner status- we all want to have our cake and eat it dont we
- Aug 23, 2022TragedyBerlusconi
No i dont believe this, however i can plausibly believe russia will gain ever greater leverage over europe which will translate to greater political influence.
And of course Russia would have preferred trade partner status- we all want to have our cake and eat it dont we
I don't really understand how this leverage would be any different from the leverage they already have through europe's incompetency when it comes to trade & energy
Aug 23, 2022·1 replyTragedyBerlusconioh i entirely agree with you. I'm British-Italian so no one is in a better place to watch the incompetence and negligence of old europe than I
It isnt the US problem really, however the US vested interest ultimately comes down to realism. The US cannot allow it's rivals to gain power in europe, as the downstream effect is this power will continue to increase as they are emboldened by set precedents. The EU is a huge market for US goods and services. Sure it may not seem that important right now, but more russian power in europe means a europe ever more dependent on russia, and soon china, and diminished us power. with diminished us power comes less us clout, and long story short, us living standards fall more. It's self interested sure, i agree, but that's what it is.
As a british person and someone with brain cells, im grateful for what america does to keep the continent safe but totally understand why youre sick of it. It's only Britain, the Baltics and Poland that really get the necessity of keeping Russia at bay. Germans want cheap gas and the french still havent forgiven us both for saving them.
that first sentence is crazy
- Aug 23, 2022·1 replySir Real
that first sentence is crazy
i mean he's not wrong there, europe is incompetent
- Aug 23, 2022·1 replykrishna bound
why is mainland Europe the US's problem? Every time there's a military alliance, Europe basically does f*** all while the US foots the bill for everything, and then Europe still complains that the US isn't doing enough. If they're too weak and disorganized to fix their own issues that's not the issue of the US. Especially when countries like Germany are stupid enough to disable nuclear power or become dependent on the exports of a supposed geopolitical adversary.
The entire world is America’s problem bozo.
- Aug 23, 2022krishna bound
i mean he's not wrong there, europe is incompetent
Meant more the “I’m British-Italian so I’m in the best position to comment on this” part lol
- Aug 23, 2022·1 replyTragedyBerlusconi
if the us didnt support ukraine, i see this happening:
Russia takes ukraine swiftly:
-if russia succeeds in capturing Kyiv, Zelensky is killed. Ukraine becomes Belarus 2.0.
-If Kyiv withstands, Russia just grabs the donbass and entire south coast as well as Zaporizhia, creating a bridge to Transnistria. Black Sea is now a Russian pond.In both scenario, Russia is emboldened and gains greater control over gas, grain and the sea. As the US will not have done anything to help Ukraine, NATO allies confidence in the US (besides France and Germany, the poles and baltics begin to s*** their pants).
The result is even greater disunity within nato and the eu becomes more dependent on Russia irrespective of public opinion nor whether they want to be. Russia now holds even greater leverage that they will use. If NATO ceases to be a functional alliance (which may not happen but likely will, as an America unwilling to get involved is likely to be an America unwilling to continue its role), you will then sea Russia move on the Baltics, bridging to Kaliningrad, and perhaps even Poland. Of course this wont happen quickly, but NATO is absolutely the body that has prevented worse cases of Russian aggression. There is no democratic peace with an undemocratic adversary.
Elsewhere, China is emboldened to move on Taiwan. If they get it before any kind of CHIPS act, boom, China now has the tech sector by the balls. Down the global living standards go, and yet another precedent is set.
NATO being destabilized is an objectively good thing