krishna bound

1y

i'm a big believer that intent doesn't matter as much as actual effect. You're right that the sympathy for Luigi is misdirected in part but it bears mentioning that most people supported "him" while he was still anonymous regardless. If Luigi has attempted to shoot the CEO but killed a random passerby even though he meant to smoke the former, I don't think there'd be as much sympathy.
The only reason I mention this is because I often see a lot of glorification of people like Aaron Bushnell (Elias even cites him), and the guy didn't accomplish jack s***. No one even remembers him unless they're already tapped in to basically online discourse. Like it's great the guy had the intent to do something meaningful for a good cause but it didn't accomplish anything in any material manner. Celebrating that basically is equivalent to celebrating someone jumping off a building because they left a note in their bedroom that said "israel is bad".
with this guy I read his """manifesto""" and I think it's very well written and ideologiclally coherent but realistically his actions don't reflect his writing and arguably come off to me misdirected in the same way as white women supporters of Luigi.
He kind of waxes poetic about Gaza on an intellectual basis that comes off more egotistical than it does critical and serves more to reinforce his intelligence than justify his actions. The idea that he even cites Aaron Bushnell here to claim "their sacrifices were not in vain" is absolute first worlder brain. Like yeah the sacrifices of some random idiot who accomplished nothing wasn't in vain?? How about the sacrifices of the actual f***ing population of palestine murdered by Israel and the inaction of western hegemony. If you actually read the letter it is f***ing absurd that he pays more sympathy to the WESTERNERS THAT PROTESTED GAZA instead of THE PEOPLE IN GAZA. Cap that off with him shooting 2 random ass low level embassy people one of which wasn't even Israeli. It's mind boggling to me because what was he trying to accomplish here? We live in a time of pure ego. Compare this with McVeigh's writing about the OKC bombing being retribution for Waco / police state / etc.

krishna bound

1y

i'm a big believer that intent doesn't matter as much as actual effect. You're right that the sympathy for Luigi is misdirected in part but it bears mentioning that most people supported "him" while he was still anonymous regardless. If Luigi has attempted to shoot the CEO but killed a random passerby even though he meant to smoke the former, I don't think there'd be as much sympathy.
The only reason I mention this is because I often see a lot of glorification of people like Aaron Bushnell (Elias even cites him), and the guy didn't accomplish jack s***. No one even remembers him unless they're already tapped in to basically online discourse. Like it's great the guy had the intent to do something meaningful for a good cause but it didn't accomplish anything in any material manner. Celebrating that basically is equivalent to celebrating someone jumping off a building because they left a note in their bedroom that said "israel is bad".
with this guy I read his """manifesto""" and I think it's very well written and ideologiclally coherent but realistically his actions don't reflect his writing and arguably come off to me misdirected in the same way as white women supporters of Luigi.
He kind of waxes poetic about Gaza on an intellectual basis that comes off more egotistical than it does critical and serves more to reinforce his intelligence than justify his actions. The idea that he even cites Aaron Bushnell here to claim "their sacrifices were not in vain" is absolute first worlder brain. Like yeah the sacrifices of some random idiot who accomplished nothing wasn't in vain?? How about the sacrifices of the actual f***ing population of palestine murdered by Israel and the inaction of western hegemony. If you actually read the letter it is f***ing absurd that he pays more sympathy to the WESTERNERS THAT PROTESTED GAZA instead of THE PEOPLE IN GAZA. Cap that off with him shooting 2 random ass low level embassy people one of which wasn't even Israeli. It's mind boggling to me because what was he trying to accomplish here? We live in a time of pure ego. Compare this with McVeigh's writing about the OKC bombing being retribution for Waco / police state / etc.

PFLP optimisticman

1y

If someone wants to sacrifice their livelihood and safety for a righteous issue because its something they believe in they dont have to meet some impossible standard of progress to be justified in their actions. Arron didn’t accomplish anything??? What do u mean? By your logic he drew more attention to the issue than some organized parties in the USA. I truly think this is a liberal perspective because your prioritizing the personal lives and safety of activists while people who face the wrath of the US government are killed by the hundreds. Also mind u arron was commemerated by the yemeni and Palestine resistance for his actions. So the people actually doing something blatantly disagree with u

e t

1y

This post convinced me you are smart. Nice.

e t

1y

This post convinced me you are smart. Nice.

krishna bound

1y

if you agree with the actions of people like bushnell you are essentially a true believer in Trotsky, it’s that simple. You cannot agree with those types of “well intended but minor effecting” actions and still prescribe to anything even remotely in the realm of MLM. Also, before it’s mentioned, don’t be obtuse - I am not talking about organizing or general organized action which is a different conversation. Revolution is an act based on material means, it is not an act based on individual ego.
The dividing factor of being in the imperial core doesn’t make a difference to excuse failure or meaningful change based on intent alone. “Intent” being the judge of actions is a liberal idea, it’s literally the same reason America glorifies war generals and politicians. At that point you may as well just take this to the logical extreme of Carl Schmidt if such and say justification for any action regardless of causality or effect under allyship is excusable by virtue of conceptual intention.

Also if you actually think bushnell accomplished anything you are beyond delusional

Edit: also, since it bears mentioning, I am obviously not critiquing people for sacrificing wellbeing in the name of change. You would need to have a 3rd grade reading level to think that. I am critiquing stroking the ego of those in the imperial core based on the intent of their actions. Praising and attaching “sacrifice” in some pseudo-Christian morality to first worlders accomplishing jack s*** is not real praxis. It doesn’t mean the person was “wrong” or “right”. It’s not a moral issue.

krishna bound

1y

if you agree with the actions of people like bushnell you are essentially a true believer in Trotsky, it’s that simple. You cannot agree with those types of “well intended but minor effecting” actions and still prescribe to anything even remotely in the realm of MLM. Also, before it’s mentioned, don’t be obtuse - I am not talking about organizing or general organized action which is a different conversation. Revolution is an act based on material means, it is not an act based on individual ego.
The dividing factor of being in the imperial core doesn’t make a difference to excuse failure or meaningful change based on intent alone. “Intent” being the judge of actions is a liberal idea, it’s literally the same reason America glorifies war generals and politicians. At that point you may as well just take this to the logical extreme of Carl Schmidt if such and say justification for any action regardless of causality or effect under allyship is excusable by virtue of conceptual intention.

Also if you actually think bushnell accomplished anything you are beyond delusional

Edit: also, since it bears mentioning, I am obviously not critiquing people for sacrificing wellbeing in the name of change. You would need to have a 3rd grade reading level to think that. I am critiquing stroking the ego of those in the imperial core based on the intent of their actions. Praising and attaching “sacrifice” in some pseudo-Christian morality to first worlders accomplishing jack s*** is not real praxis. It doesn’t mean the person was “wrong” or “right”. It’s not a moral issue.

PFLP optimisticman

1y

“Stroking the ego of those in the imperial core” brother arron bushnell is dead and the guy who shot the isreali ambassadors is going to jail for life. No one is doing this for glory points. The position of any islamic resistance is that those who make personal sacrifice for the good of the victims is a martyr. This is baseline human morality. To make change in this world ull need people willing to make sacrifices. A child knows this

PFLP optimisticman

1y

This is all a bunch of psude non sense but can u explain your point on trotsky? In what way does honoring direct action regardless of whether it was the deciding factor in a movement support trotskyism? I have no clue what you could mean by that

krishna bound

1y

If you believe Aaron bushnell accomplished anything pls follow suit and do the same thing since it’s such meaningful praxis lol

Choking

1y

thing is it doesn’t matter, none of these protest or shooting do either, there’s no capable organizations in the west able to make any sort action that can actually benefit palestinians other than going on ur weekly march and patting urself on ur back, or discoursing. having zionist actually feel irl danger for their actions and support is the next best thing.

Also america or whatever don’t need this to be a false flag or an excuse to clamp down on the “left” they have been doing that and don’t need it as a justification

krishna bound

1y

If you believe Aaron bushnell accomplished anything pls follow suit and do the same thing since it’s such meaningful praxis lol

snowboyrari

1y

· edited

political actions do not exist in a vacuum on some scale of raw efficacy. the only thing that matters in any circumstance is the ability of the revolutionary anti-revisionist communist party to intervene in these events to give them meaning.

by admission you are not a communist which explains why, despite all your apperent marxist book learning, you ignore marx's actual words on this (which I nicely posted in here).

krishna bound

1y

If you believe Aaron bushnell accomplished anything pls follow suit and do the same thing since it’s such meaningful praxis lol

krishna bound

1y

If you believe Aaron bushnell accomplished anything pls follow suit and do the same thing since it’s such meaningful praxis lol

snowboyrari

1y

political actions do not exist in a vacuum on some scale of raw efficacy. the only thing that matters in any circumstance is the ability of the revolutionary anti-revisionist communist party to intervene in these events to give them meaning.

by admission you are not a communist which explains why, despite all your apperent marxist book learning, you ignore marx's actual words on this (which I nicely posted in here).

PFLP optimisticman

1y

Saying it’s meaningful praxis is an argument u made up that had nothing to do with what i said. Youre entire reply was a meaningless rant against positions I dont hold. Also making fun of someone for an objectively selfless and brave act isn't a flex it makes u seem like an unserious coward

krishna bound

1y

if you agree with the actions of people like bushnell you are essentially a true believer in Trotsky, it’s that simple. You cannot agree with those types of “well intended but minor effecting” actions and still prescribe to anything even remotely in the realm of MLM. Also, before it’s mentioned, don’t be obtuse - I am not talking about organizing or general organized action which is a different conversation. Revolution is an act based on material means, it is not an act based on individual ego.
The dividing factor of being in the imperial core doesn’t make a difference to excuse failure or meaningful change based on intent alone. “Intent” being the judge of actions is a liberal idea, it’s literally the same reason America glorifies war generals and politicians. At that point you may as well just take this to the logical extreme of Carl Schmidt if such and say justification for any action regardless of causality or effect under allyship is excusable by virtue of conceptual intention.

Also if you actually think bushnell accomplished anything you are beyond delusional

Edit: also, since it bears mentioning, I am obviously not critiquing people for sacrificing wellbeing in the name of change. You would need to have a 3rd grade reading level to think that. I am critiquing stroking the ego of those in the imperial core based on the intent of their actions. Praising and attaching “sacrifice” in some pseudo-Christian morality to first worlders accomplishing jack s*** is not real praxis. It doesn’t mean the person was “wrong” or “right”. It’s not a moral issue.

krishna bound

1y

Is killing yourself praxis yes or no

Choking

1y

Hitler killing himself very much the greatest act of praxis from a socialist

krishna bound

1y

Is killing yourself praxis yes or no

krishna bound

1y

Is killing yourself praxis yes or no

Choking

1y

i don’t get the connection between trotsky and bushnell, if anything there’s a closer connection with Mao (not maoism) and the lady that killed herself cause of an arranged marriage he wrote about early in his career (whose suicide in the grand scheme of things didn’t do anything against the feudal order).

PFLP optimisticman

1y

Im gonna ignore the strawman and go back to your original reply where u said people who support bushnell are centering first worlders, how exactly does that allign with the fact that the palestinian resistance found his actions meaningful?