Communism Thread

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  • Sep 1, 2021
    sniper

    I'm not a fan of the red statist rhetoric being identical to American nationalist right-wingers, which should speak volumes.

    Always nice when anarchists do the whole "horseshoe thing is actually real but just not my specific tendency" thing

  • Sep 1, 2021
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    "But a real socialism, it is argued, would be controlled by the workers themselves through direct participation instead of being run by Leninists, Stalinists, Castroites, or other ill-willed, power-hungry, bureaucratic, cabals of evil men who betray revolutions. Unfortunately, this “pure socialism” view is ahistorical and nonfalsifiable; it cannot be tested against the actualities of history. It compares an ideal against an imperfect reality, and the reality comes off a poor second. It imagines what socialism would be like in a world far better than this one, where no strong state structure or security force is required, where none of the value produced by workers needs to be expropriated to rebuild society and defend it from invasion and internal sabotage.

    The pure socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.

    The pure socialists had a vision of a new society that would create and be created by new people, a society so transformed in its fundamentals as to leave little room for wrongful acts, corruption, and criminal abuses of state power. There would be no bureaucracy or self-interested coteries, no ruthless conflicts or hurtful decisions. When the reality proves different and more difficult, some on the Left proceed to condemn the real thing and announce that they “feel betrayed” by this or that revolution.

    The pure socialists see socialism as an ideal that was tarnished by communist venality, duplicity, and power cravings. The pure socialists oppose the Soviet model but offer little evidence to demonstrate that other paths could have been taken, that other models of socialism–not created from one’s imagination but developed through actual historical experience–could have taken hold and worked better. Was an open, pluralistic, democratic socialism actually possible at this historic juncture?"

  • Sep 1, 2021
    Scratchin Mamba

    Vaush gonna turn fascist in before the end of the 2024 elections

    Just a prediction

    spicy

    hope the forum is alive to come back to this

  • Sep 1, 2021

    tap in .....

  • Sep 1, 2021
    Scratchin Mamba

    "But a real socialism, it is argued, would be controlled by the workers themselves through direct participation instead of being run by Leninists, Stalinists, Castroites, or other ill-willed, power-hungry, bureaucratic, cabals of evil men who betray revolutions. Unfortunately, this “pure socialism” view is ahistorical and nonfalsifiable; it cannot be tested against the actualities of history. It compares an ideal against an imperfect reality, and the reality comes off a poor second. It imagines what socialism would be like in a world far better than this one, where no strong state structure or security force is required, where none of the value produced by workers needs to be expropriated to rebuild society and defend it from invasion and internal sabotage.

    The pure socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.

    The pure socialists had a vision of a new society that would create and be created by new people, a society so transformed in its fundamentals as to leave little room for wrongful acts, corruption, and criminal abuses of state power. There would be no bureaucracy or self-interested coteries, no ruthless conflicts or hurtful decisions. When the reality proves different and more difficult, some on the Left proceed to condemn the real thing and announce that they “feel betrayed” by this or that revolution.

    The pure socialists see socialism as an ideal that was tarnished by communist venality, duplicity, and power cravings. The pure socialists oppose the Soviet model but offer little evidence to demonstrate that other paths could have been taken, that other models of socialism–not created from one’s imagination but developed through actual historical experience–could have taken hold and worked better. Was an open, pluralistic, democratic socialism actually possible at this historic juncture?"

    Thank you

  • Sep 1, 2021
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    Scratchin Mamba

    "But a real socialism, it is argued, would be controlled by the workers themselves through direct participation instead of being run by Leninists, Stalinists, Castroites, or other ill-willed, power-hungry, bureaucratic, cabals of evil men who betray revolutions. Unfortunately, this “pure socialism” view is ahistorical and nonfalsifiable; it cannot be tested against the actualities of history. It compares an ideal against an imperfect reality, and the reality comes off a poor second. It imagines what socialism would be like in a world far better than this one, where no strong state structure or security force is required, where none of the value produced by workers needs to be expropriated to rebuild society and defend it from invasion and internal sabotage.

    The pure socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.

    The pure socialists had a vision of a new society that would create and be created by new people, a society so transformed in its fundamentals as to leave little room for wrongful acts, corruption, and criminal abuses of state power. There would be no bureaucracy or self-interested coteries, no ruthless conflicts or hurtful decisions. When the reality proves different and more difficult, some on the Left proceed to condemn the real thing and announce that they “feel betrayed” by this or that revolution.

    The pure socialists see socialism as an ideal that was tarnished by communist venality, duplicity, and power cravings. The pure socialists oppose the Soviet model but offer little evidence to demonstrate that other paths could have been taken, that other models of socialism–not created from one’s imagination but developed through actual historical experience–could have taken hold and worked better. Was an open, pluralistic, democratic socialism actually possible at this historic juncture?"

    What happened to "withering away the state"? This just seems like a spiel for the persistence of state capitalism for damn near eternity, this isn't socialism.

    I mean it's a well-written little essay by Parenti, but it does not address actual critiques of anarchism, specifically in power relations. Can someone explain to me how class comes from top-down, or "proletarian class character"? The arguments I've heard for it is that because the leader held a regular job at one point, they're somehow super tapped in with the proletariat. You can do this argument with nearly every U.S politician with a blue-collar backstory, democratic or conservative.

    Also if it was a successful socialist revolution, why did almost every ML state backslide towards traditional capitalist property relations and free-markets? Why does China have landlords and growing inequality?

    I'll give credit to Leon Trotsky, he was right about the dangers of substitutionism going on, that has carried over so many years later in general ML theory.

    “If you took the most ardent revolutionary, vested him in absolute power, within a year he would be worse than the Tsar himself.” - Bakunin

    Please MLs ITT, read at least some anarchist theory to understand where people come from. Parenti and his contemporaries seem to have only consumed strawmen from the likes of Lenin and Engels, who grossly misinterpreted what Anarchism was, and of course we don't prescribe every minute ideal, that's the point of libertarian socialism, the people can decide for themselves at the end of the day, they don't need a babysitter state. There have been theoretical and practical suggestions and explanations for what anarchist/libsoc societies may look like, and there are even current surviving examples in the forms of EZLN/Rojava, and other communes. There is also the examples to look back on in history.

  • Sep 1, 2021
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    I beg of y'all to understand, no one is asking for socialism to be built on a whim. We just don't believe in the state to do it, and we believe the state will actively work against socialism, no matter what aesthetic you put it under. LibSocs and Anarchists advocate for people-ran horizontal autonomous dual-power structures (much like pre-Bolshevik worker soviets) to be built under capitalism (This is something the Panthers did right, and why they got so popular.) to enact social change and to build people more amenable and welcoming and understanding to it. These did exist in the past, especially around the time of the Russian Revolution, but they were destroyed by Lenin on his warpath to rule of the state (The crushing of factory committees, which basically was suppressing worker control in favor of the state controlling everything. Every time, worker's control rose in popular support, they had to blame it on "anarchism", when it was just people asking for what they fought for in the war for socialism.

    Every time autonomous revolutionary workers rose up in a state capitalist society, and threatened the red state, because they were lied to, they got brutalized.

    State capitalist societies only like vassal states and vassal organizations, if they dissent from the state in any way or threaten the power of the ruling "vanguard" bureaucratic class, they are damned.

  • Sep 1, 2021
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    The fact that I even have to argue for what socialism is and is not, is quite sad in a "socialist" thread.

    The fact that state capitalist "socialists" have even thrown out the definition of worker control, in favor of a warped Leninist definition is quite sad.

    What happened to doing away with labor alienation and stuff like that?

  • Sep 2, 2021
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    1 reply
    Yuzzy

    Just go on Letterboxd and filter by films where Portuguese is spoken

    @spacecadet yo thanks for the recommendations. I found this film called Besouro. it looks like a heater (at least right up my ally lol)

    Trailer & Full Movie Below

  • Sep 2, 2021
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    Bestowed

    @spacecadet yo thanks for the recommendations. I found this film called Besouro. it looks like a heater (at least right up my ally lol)

    Trailer & Full Movie Below

    !https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghmo7_5A8U8!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhrSIxqDSEw


    looks great, can definetely see some city of god inspo in there if you look at how they use the cameras

  • Sep 2, 2021
    sniper

    I beg of y'all to understand, no one is asking for socialism to be built on a whim. We just don't believe in the state to do it, and we believe the state will actively work against socialism, no matter what aesthetic you put it under. LibSocs and Anarchists advocate for people-ran horizontal autonomous dual-power structures (much like pre-Bolshevik worker soviets) to be built under capitalism (This is something the Panthers did right, and why they got so popular.) to enact social change and to build people more amenable and welcoming and understanding to it. These did exist in the past, especially around the time of the Russian Revolution, but they were destroyed by Lenin on his warpath to rule of the state (The crushing of factory committees, which basically was suppressing worker control in favor of the state controlling everything. Every time, worker's control rose in popular support, they had to blame it on "anarchism", when it was just people asking for what they fought for in the war for socialism.

    Every time autonomous revolutionary workers rose up in a state capitalist society, and threatened the red state, because they were lied to, they got brutalized.

    State capitalist societies only like vassal states and vassal organizations, if they dissent from the state in any way or threaten the power of the ruling "vanguard" bureaucratic class, they are damned.

    nobody here is completely disowning any of the contributions of anarchist thought.

    there is just a historical precedent of using sectarianism as a weapon against existing socialist societies and attacking people actually attempting to build socialism is counterproductive to any revolution. the people here understand this historical precedent and want to push back against tired anticommunist narratives.

    ultimately the correct thought will be the one that is the correct answer to a given set of material conditions, one in which MLism or anarchism or elements of both or neither will be needed. until the point in time in which the material conditions present the need to determine what the correct applications of theory are, anticommunism under the guise of leftist sectarianism does not help anybody who seeks to further the struggle against their oppressors.

    anarchist thought is invaluable to socialism as an ecosystem of thought. anticommunism is unneeded.

  • Sep 2, 2021
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    Marxist-Leninist Perspectives on Black Liberation and Socialism by Frank Chapman

    Washington Bullets by Vijay Prashad (also read The Darker Nations)

    Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti

    How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney

    Night-Vision: Illuminating War & Class on the Neo-Colonial Terrain by Butch Lee

    First marxist-leninist book I ever read was Blackshirts and Reds, would recommend you to do the same

  • Sep 2, 2021
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    1 reply
    space0cadet

    Marxist-Leninist Perspectives on Black Liberation and Socialism by Frank Chapman

    Washington Bullets by Vijay Prashad (also read The Darker Nations)

    Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti

    How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney

    Night-Vision: Illuminating War & Class on the Neo-Colonial Terrain by Butch Lee

    First marxist-leninist book I ever read was Blackshirts and Reds, would recommend you to do the same

    cant wait to read more of these

  • Sep 2, 2021
    spongebob

    cant wait to read more of these

    Yep, check out my goodreads for more inspiration
    goodreads.com/user/show/132114576-maoppw
    The ones I specifically listed in my above post are just ones that are easy to read and are introductory texts to marxist thought

  • Sep 6, 2021
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    2 replies
    americana

    Is he really just a soap boxer. I thought he talks about theory and s*** in parts of his stream

  • Sep 6, 2021
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    2 replies
    www quakerboy us
    !https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FVZpkDd8FM&ab_channel=JustAnotherHasanAbiClipChannel

    man this guy didnt deserve so much hate for buying a house like who gives a f***

  • Sep 6, 2021
    www quakerboy us
    !https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FVZpkDd8FM&ab_channel=JustAnotherHasanAbiClipChannel

    I’ll listen when I can

  • Sep 6, 2021
    space0cadet

    man this guy didnt deserve so much hate for buying a house like who gives a f***

    It's stupid as f*** lmao

  • Sep 6, 2021

    Awesome paper connecting Marx's a***ysis of bourgeois conspiracy to 9/11.
    web.archive.org/web/20170519144741/http://sdonline.org/53/marxism-conspiracy-and-9-11

  • Nort 💫
    Sep 6, 2021
    sniper

    I beg of y'all to understand, no one is asking for socialism to be built on a whim. We just don't believe in the state to do it, and we believe the state will actively work against socialism, no matter what aesthetic you put it under. LibSocs and Anarchists advocate for people-ran horizontal autonomous dual-power structures (much like pre-Bolshevik worker soviets) to be built under capitalism (This is something the Panthers did right, and why they got so popular.) to enact social change and to build people more amenable and welcoming and understanding to it. These did exist in the past, especially around the time of the Russian Revolution, but they were destroyed by Lenin on his warpath to rule of the state (The crushing of factory committees, which basically was suppressing worker control in favor of the state controlling everything. Every time, worker's control rose in popular support, they had to blame it on "anarchism", when it was just people asking for what they fought for in the war for socialism.

    Every time autonomous revolutionary workers rose up in a state capitalist society, and threatened the red state, because they were lied to, they got brutalized.

    State capitalist societies only like vassal states and vassal organizations, if they dissent from the state in any way or threaten the power of the ruling "vanguard" bureaucratic class, they are damned.

  • Nort 💫
    Sep 6, 2021
    sniper

    The fact that I even have to argue for what socialism is and is not, is quite sad in a "socialist" thread.

    The fact that state capitalist "socialists" have even thrown out the definition of worker control, in favor of a warped Leninist definition is quite sad.

    What happened to doing away with labor alienation and stuff like that?

  • Sep 6, 2021
    space0cadet

    man this guy didnt deserve so much hate for buying a house like who gives a f***

    socialism needs all the proponents it can get imo

  • Sep 6, 2021
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    arguing with proponents of neoliberal individualism blows my mind