Jay is more than just a traditional lyricist though, he's one of the lyricists that know how to make great songs beyond just rapping well.

His ear for beats is easily top 5 OAT in rap and hes made hits and classic songs with just about every great producer.

I do feel Hov in general is gassed by the Rap community but he became a certified GOAT in less time than it took Drake to be viewed that way.

Hov had at least 3 classics the Rap Community will claim and we're in year 11 and TC, ITRT, and anything past SFG still have to be debated as such for those who aren't Drake fans.

Which is stupid

In Jay Z’s prime years people had to purchase CD’s just to listen to their favorite songs

Lol which is why I said it’s not comparable, if Drake wanted an acclaimed “ rap “ album he could easily do it

I beg to differ I don’t think Shawn was appreciated until after he was no longer in the lime light

He got a lot of hate for crossing over, he said it himself, Drake & Shawn have the same career trajectory, except Drake is bigger commercially & Jay Z was the better lyricist

Exactly, Darkes total album sales would be stupid, but they grasping at straws to devalue Drake's hit making prowess

I remember when ktt was its own thing. Nowadays I feel like yall love being in tune with the hive mind.

Not even capping..even as I'm not the biggest Drake fan, one of the best songs of the last decade with the best production. Jay's retrospective look at the Roc days >> Makes me feel mad nostalgic

No they didn't, that wasnt their only choice. They had Radio, Music Video shows on BET, VH1 and MTV, and free downloading took off around 98/99 also with Napster.

Hov's "benefitting" from traditional sales were really just a combination of strong radio play and individual single CD sales.

Streaming made it to where if you're big enough your entire album can chart and live on the charts for a few weeks. It was never like that with traditional album sales.

In a way, Streaming is a more concise way of viewing song and artist popularity, but it has made it easier for todays artists to reach feats the artists before the 2010s werent able to bc the system was set up differently.

Seriously

Even before Drake’s prime years & streaming he was selling more first week all while being the industry’s most pirated artist

NWTS was downloaded illegally 10 million times weeks before release & sold 650k+

That alone debunks your statements, Drake has had bigger hits than Shawn

Now if you wanted to mention me ignoring something, it should've been Hov having to get companies like Sprint and Samsung to buy a million albums from him.

But today's popular artists are able to reach accolades the pre-2010s werent able to with pure sales. That isn't really something that is opinion tbh.

How else are we suppose to track music consumption? Nobody buys music anymore lol

Wasn't one sweet day number 1 for 26 weeks and also there were black eyed peas songs with 10 plus weeks pre streaming.

Drake had 3 top 5 hits as a lead artist before streaming took off in 2015 while being a Rap, R&B and Pop Hybrid. Best I Ever Had was his highest charting single as a lead until those #1s started racking around 2016.

Hov had 2 top 5 hits as a lead in his prime without being as versatile.

Drake's success on the charts went on an entirely different level after streaming took off, which is what Im arguing. Drake wasn't more or less successful than your average A list Rapper as a lead artist (Wayne, 50, Ye, Em, etc.) until that point.

Jay Z was a pop act too, at least he tried to be

If Shawn could go pop and sing songs he would, are we going to forget songs like Sunshine & Give it 2 Me exist ?

Shawn was criticized for being a pop rapper and crossing over for more money

He even admitted to it

Also like I said Drake was the most pirated artist in the industry, the piracy in hip hop was higher than other genres

Yes, but what Im arguing is that those chart accomplishments are a bit easier to achieve now than in those days.

There was a reason why those historic streaks didnt happen as frequently. In the post streaming era there are new records or stats being broken every day it feels like.

All Im arguing is its easier to reach and break these records now vs in Jay's time, so you can't equally measure sales for him and Drake nose to nose bc the way they are tallied are different.

I don't think it can be argued that the amount of billboard success Drake had before streaming can't even compare to how he's been doing after streaming.

Yeah it’s way easier these days. The box shouldn’t had been number 1 for as long as it did. Idk how anyone can deny its easier to push out hits now. Gucci Gang as another example, a song like that going top 3 should let you know how much of a lick chart positioning is nowadays.

I agree with some of what you're saying,but I'm feel like you're misinterpreting each guys place in hiphop during their respective careers. For most years from 2010 till present day Drake has been indisputably the most or second most popular rapper. Jay was always behind Dmx,Eminem, Wayne,Ye,etc. In terms of popularity in any given year.

I can make a song saying bounce that ass for 4 minutes straight and its going to be a hit if I get make it go viral. It’s super sweet these days.

Drake in his prime >>>

"Streets"

I’m pretty sure he’s been outsold every single year too

I don’t think he was a massive as 50 cent, Little Wayne or 2016 Drake

Jay Z just happens to be the most relevant and respected hip hopper

Also Drake's 1st week numbers before Views (400k to under 700k) were numbers Jay Z were routinely pulling from Vol. 3 era to MCHG (1999 to 2013), so it's not like he was far behind Drakes usual numbers back then either.

Exactly, I think his marriage to Beyonce and his connections to artists like Ye carried him until he achieved some modicum of endless relevance. I think guys like Andre 3000 and Eminem have managed to achieve this sort of notoriety without as many public pr.

I actually looked it up, Jay Z’s highest selling sales have been 680,000 with kingdom come

Everything else has been 300 to 480k

Wasn't there something that came out about Jay boosting his numbers back in the day.

Yes.

To be fair jay-z was sounding pretty washed around the time this song came out lol..

4:44 was classic but I hope people don’t forget that Jay-Z did not sound like himself when he came back from retirement...Not consistently.. he still doesn’t rap on the level he did before he retired.

Imagine 98-03 Hov on this.