Blue Man

9mo

this is the "depth and insight" these frauds brag about

ryuH

9mo

Jay-z at 38

Drake at 38

ryuH

9mo

Jay-Z was really from that s*** though, he was really was one of closest thing rap had to a rich porter/alpo type figure and that story hadent been told in rap with the level of detail, clarity, insight, maturity and growth that he brought to the topic prior or since

It’s easy to be reductive and label Jay-Z as a commercial d*** rapper in the vein of someone like Ross maybe (who he heavily influenced might i add) but his d*** raps leaned way more into the realm of social commentary than any of his contemporaries.

ryuH

9mo

Jay-Z was really from that s*** though, he was really was one of closest thing rap had to a rich porter/alpo type figure and that story hadent been told in rap with the level of detail, clarity, insight, maturity and growth that he brought to the topic prior or since

It’s easy to be reductive and label Jay-Z as a commercial d*** rapper in the vein of someone like Ross maybe (who he heavily influenced might i add) but his d*** raps leaned way more into the realm of social commentary than any of his contemporaries.

Blue Man

9mo

ngl you could've just chosen Nas or Tupac and i wouldn't have had a retort. You're trying too hard to make jay z more than what he was

ryuH

9mo

I’m not trying hard at all, Jay-Z was exactly what I described

If you not familiar just say that

And I would never compare Drake to Nas for any reason are you slow lol

Blue Man

9mo

keep wish casting your version of jay z that doesn't match with reality

ryuH

9mo

lol ok big man you tell me then, what version of Jay-Z matches with reality? I’ll wait

Blue Man

9mo

I still think he's top 5 so I don't wanna go too hard on him but whenever I'm listening to his classics, he's rapping about being a hustler or gangster. The closest he comes to social commentary is when he tries to convince the listener that him climbing the wealth and social ladder is for the benefit of black people. From what i currently know about him, those lyrics do not age well.

What hurts him the most tho imo is the contrast when listening to Nas classics from the same era. I get much better lyricsm, story telling, and vivid depiction of the street life from Nas. whats even worse is that I've always found jay's flow and voice boring so whats the point of dumbing everything down if you're not going to sound better. He just does not stand out as #1 in any category of what i consider a goat.

So if someone says that Drake can never be a Nas, I'll respect it because at least that'll signal the person values lyricism, depth, and consciousness. Jay Z? NO!!!

Flack06

9mo

Government mandated beat switches

Autotune rap vocals that make him sound nasally

Too many features

Too many short songs where he only does one verse

Not giving us another project executive produced by boi-1da

Having too many producers involved in a single song

—————————

Yet his casual ass haters dont talk about any of this, the production or actual music all they know is his image and how he acts “gangster”

Gay

ryuH

9mo

Well thought out response I respect it

I think you are missing some of the nuance here though. I agree that Nas has WAY more depth than Jay-Z which is why I stated that he shouldn’t even be mentioned in this conversation. The level of depth in his content is more comparable to Kendrick. But while Jay-Z doesn’t compare to Nas level depth there is still a sizable gap in the level of depth in Jay-Z’s content versus Drake’s and you are undermining his content imo

Jay-Z was always very insightful and self aware and mature relative to his age and where the culture was/is. He was also very clever. He was never mindless and hedonistic. He always explained his exact perspective and you could see how his perspective changed through the years. Drake kinda started like that but he ended up becoming so self absorbed that he lost all sense of perspective beyond his ego and his lyrics completely stopped maturing. There is no difference between the perspective of 28 year old Drake and 38 year old Drake. 28 year old Jay vs 38 year old Jay was like listening to two different people, that’s how much he grew and expanded his worldview

Blue Man

9mo

I don't see this insight and depth that you see in Jay Z. Maturity, intelligence and cleverness maybe but not noticeably more than Drake. I agree that Drake's music stopped maturing but I don't think its because he's self absorbed and egotistic. Its because rap is a young man's game. That's just what it is

Also another reason his perspective hasn't changed is because he came into the game as #1 among his peers and 15 years later, he's still #1. Drake doesn't feel the same pressure Jay Z felt when he was competing with Nas, Eminem, and even 50 cent. It may come off as egotistic to his critics but he's not wrong to feel untouchable

This is the starting lyrics for "30 for 30 freestyle" 10 years ago

"Never thought I'd be talking from this perspective
But I'm not really sure what else you expected
When the higher-ups have all come together as a collective
With conspiracies to end my run and send me a message"

Even after the events of the past year, for all intensive purpose, nothing has changed for him

Free YoungBoy

9mo

That part on 30 for 30 freestyle is about Diddy slapping him over a beat btw

Blue Man

9mo

I don't see this insight and depth that you see in Jay Z. Maturity, intelligence and cleverness maybe but not noticeably more than Drake. I agree that Drake's music stopped maturing but I don't think its because he's self absorbed and egotistic. Its because rap is a young man's game. That's just what it is

Also another reason his perspective hasn't changed is because he came into the game as #1 among his peers and 15 years later, he's still #1. Drake doesn't feel the same pressure Jay Z felt when he was competing with Nas, Eminem, and even 50 cent. It may come off as egotistic to his critics but he's not wrong to feel untouchable

This is the starting lyrics for "30 for 30 freestyle" 10 years ago

"Never thought I'd be talking from this perspective
But I'm not really sure what else you expected
When the higher-ups have all come together as a collective
With conspiracies to end my run and send me a message"

Even after the events of the past year, for all intensive purpose, nothing has changed for him

ryuH

9mo

Let me ask you this, where are you from/what is your level of exposure to the streets?

Blue Man

9mo

if you're asking if im black or not, yes I am. and from Houston

ryuH

9mo

lol I wasn’t specifically asking if you were black I was just asking if you were familiar with actual street s*** via lived experience or via the lived experience of someone close to you/a loved one

I have been close to people who have lived that life and I assure you Jay-Zs perspective on it is extremely insightful relative to the average person cut from that

I just couldn’t really understand how someone who even remotely understands what it’s like to be out there or that could at least empathize with that perspective couldn’t see the depth Jay brought to the topic from the beginning

Blue Man

9mo

The issue for Jay Z is that there are rappers who imo did what he did but better. If illmatic, it was written, only built 4 cuban lynx, liquid swords, or even a more recent and street conscious album Honor Killed the Samurai didn't exist, I would give him more credit. With him, I feel like its the street life but dumbed down lyrically for the audience. and he was never the most innovative rapper so I can't even give him points for starting it. Maybe he was unlucky to be in the era of lyrical street rappers

ryuH

9mo

I disagree

Illmatic described the perspective of coming up in the projects, it pretty much had zero stories about actual hustling

OBFCL and IWW (classics obviously as all the albums we are discussing are) was technically mafioso but they were more like dramatized crime movies inspired by real life but not 100% based on lived experience

Reasonable Doubt was an autobiography based on Hov’s real life and it set the foundation for his entire discography going forward

Getting away from the point here because this about Drake but yeah man Hov definitely has significantly more depth than Drake. At least rap wise. Now if we count rnb Drake it might be closer bc I feel like his rnb content tends to have more substance than his rapping.

Again I would more or less put Drake even with Jay in terms of skill (pen, flow, etc) which is pretty high praise, but it’s what he DOES with that skill in terms of content that I’m speaking on. He just hasn’t shown us anything rap wise with depth imo. I’d say he’s been about where Jay was Vol 2 - Vol 3 era content wise for the last 10 years which is insane fr 💀 I feel like he’s never going to grow out of this “I’m commercially dominant and rich”/modern day big pimpin era man