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  • Jul 22, 2021

    Outside of maybe apartheid South Africa (Where people on the ground were actively calling for economic sanctions), when have sanctions by the global north led to the embetterment of conditions of people on the ground? The last half a century has shown not doing business with countries like Korea DPR and Cuba isn't going to topple the state in those countries, but it sure as hell is going to bring a lot of suffering to the people you claim you're trying to help.

  • Jul 22, 2021
    3 replies
    Villainous B

    Outside of maybe apartheid South Africa (Where people on the ground were actively calling for economic sanctions), when have sanctions by the global north led to the embetterment of conditions of people on the ground? The last half a century has shown not doing business with countries like Korea DPR and Cuba isn't going to topple the state in those countries, but it sure as hell is going to bring a lot of suffering to the people you claim you're trying to help.

    a lot of the time sanctions are done to punish elites rather than help those at the bottom

    sometimes, the global north will lie and say it's to help people on the ground, other times, such as russia in 2014, theyll straight up say it is a punishment for a transgression

    also sanctions can be aimed at government officials rather than the whole economy

  • never

  • Jul 22, 2021
    1 reply
    TragedyBerlusconi

    a lot of the time sanctions are done to punish elites rather than help those at the bottom

    sometimes, the global north will lie and say it's to help people on the ground, other times, such as russia in 2014, theyll straight up say it is a punishment for a transgression

    also sanctions can be aimed at government officials rather than the whole economy

    true enough but even sanctions aimed explicitly at elites can worsen conditions for 'common people' because elites choose to constrain social spending and redirect the increasingly scarce resources and rents to themselves/the military apparatus in order to ensure their continued loyalty and support. they can also impose counter-sanctions i.e. what Russia did around 2014 which led to major food shortages within the country.

  • Jul 22, 2021
    TragedyBerlusconi

    a lot of the time sanctions are done to punish elites rather than help those at the bottom

    sometimes, the global north will lie and say it's to help people on the ground, other times, such as russia in 2014, theyll straight up say it is a punishment for a transgression

    also sanctions can be aimed at government officials rather than the whole economy

    The idea behind sanctions is that you f*** the country up so badly that people will support a "regime change" (= new US puppet) just to live normally again

    Just another form of warfare

    Kills people too - look at medical shortages, food shortages, spare part shortages in Iran

  • Jul 22, 2021
    2 replies
    TragedyBerlusconi

    a lot of the time sanctions are done to punish elites rather than help those at the bottom

    sometimes, the global north will lie and say it's to help people on the ground, other times, such as russia in 2014, theyll straight up say it is a punishment for a transgression

    also sanctions can be aimed at government officials rather than the whole economy

    But I'm talking about those aimed at whole countries more than anything, can economic sanctions on places like Venezuela or Yemen really be justified from a humanitarian perspective?

  • Jul 22, 2021
    1 reply
    Villainous B

    But I'm talking about those aimed at whole countries more than anything, can economic sanctions on places like Venezuela or Yemen really be justified from a humanitarian perspective?

    It's based on the liberal fantasy that war is only war when a gun is fired, and anything below that is "peaceful"

  • Jul 22, 2021
    ARCADE GOON

    It's based on the liberal fantasy that war is only war when a gun is fired, and anything below that is "peaceful"

    More when private property is actively being threatened than anything.

  • Moon

    true enough but even sanctions aimed explicitly at elites can worsen conditions for 'common people' because elites choose to constrain social spending and redirect the increasingly scarce resources and rents to themselves/the military apparatus in order to ensure their continued loyalty and support. they can also impose counter-sanctions i.e. what Russia did around 2014 which led to major food shortages within the country.

    Not arguing with this, you're right

  • Villainous B

    But I'm talking about those aimed at whole countries more than anything, can economic sanctions on places like Venezuela or Yemen really be justified from a humanitarian perspective?

    No, not from that perspective

  • Jul 22, 2021
    1 reply

    wtf even is a sanction on an individual
    what does that look like

  • death spacecadet 0

    wtf even is a sanction on an individual
    what does that look like

    stopping them entering a country, freezing their assets in your country,seizing their property, blocking companies operating in your territory from doing business with an individual

  • Jul 22, 2021

    sanctions is the employment of war by other means

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