Mar 1, 2023·1 replyblondedrasie a self hating gay i just scroll over their posts ngl
- Mar 1, 2023
deadacckrishna post inbound
but before that the explanation is that cointelpro decimated the actual left in the united states which is where all these bourgeois concessions we have now come from. and with all bourgeois concessions they can just take them away at will once the revolutionary moment has passed.
- Mar 1, 2023·1 reply
GlentotheBecause the trans community has hijacked the movement and are- probably inadvertently, alienating people to the push for equality because of how over the top and in your face they are about their gender identity when us non-bigoted people couldn’t care less about their gender. This is just an observation as the community doesn’t reflect me, I’m all for people living how they want to live. A couple of my gay friends have said that they have observed trans groups trying to exclude LGB people from marches and parades as well which goes entirely against the movement which is about inclusion and equality. I think a lot of the trans lobby manifests itself as anger which is often misdirected.
if u only interact with hyper left wing terminally online trans people on twitter i see how u get this view
still a dumbass comment though
Mar 1, 2023·1 replyblondedrasie a self hating gay i just scroll over their posts ngl
u never read ur own posts?
- Mar 1, 2023Yuzzy
I feel like the pushabck is mostly only about trans people nowadays
It is
- Mar 1, 2023Choking
u never read ur own posts?
i love myself - kendrifkclam ar
- Mar 1, 2023·4 repliesdeadacc
krishna post inbound
but before that the explanation is that cointelpro decimated the actual left in the united states which is where all these bourgeois concessions we have now come from. and with all bourgeois concessions they can just take them away at will once the revolutionary moment has passed.
actual long post now
firstly, i don't think it's really fair to equate LGBT movements intrinsically to leftism. it's true of course that the two intersected many times historically (just as racial civil rights movements did on both ends too) , but there is no intrinsic connection between LGBT and any specific political movements (in the US or abroad), just allyship at times in terms of similar goals. For the purpose of this conversation though it makes more sense to limit the discussion to America as the modern understanding of LGBT movements is basically an Americanism more than anything else. In that sense, we ave to acknowledge there is just as much a history of right wing LGBT movements in the US as there is leftist ones. Much of the reason we now group LGBT groups with leftism is due to a false equivalence made in the post-WW2 era by the US government, where President Eisenhower & Senator McCarthy included gays in their umbrella of McCarthyism investigations. This of course had the result of pushing LGBT people into outer/alien spaces which of course were occupied by those also excluded - at the time i.e. Marxists, etc. ; however this was not still a direct connection as much as it was a means of communication. What is often not talked about at this time are movements such as the Gay Voter's League, which often campaigned for Republican Candidates (including Nixon!), the rise of Log Cabin Republicans (which successfully lobbied against many anti-gay measures in the US), and prior to that, of course, the movements of gay people who supported Fascism - that quote from Maxim Gorky exists for a reason, it was not just fabricated due to hating Nazis. Just as the succession of Dadism led to Fascism, the "rebuild all culture with new values" ideas was appealing to many disenfranchised LGBT at the time, especially abroad since it was not true that Marxism and LGBT rights were seen (internally or externally) as one and the same. While of course this was seen more in Europe, it did also exist in the US.
Of course, all the above is basically just historical window dressing. Of course LGBT people were historically targeted politically within the US and elsewhere in the same manner as political Leftists. The point is though that the threat there was visceral; fighting for what was not just a political ends but a deep cultural victory. For as much as LGBT people may come from different labels or walks of life, there is a reason the letters are (were) grouped together over time and it's because the original cultural battle was about, at its heart, the ability to hold differential cultural values and still co-exist alongside others; this is how it materializes in strains of all subcultural movements from Punk to Jon Waters' shock Cinema. This was a shared value between groups - whether they be transgender, gay, etc. Now, here is the issue; years pass, and this victory was essentially won. Or, well, it was was won insofar as the system accepted the asks of the people fighting it. Because, at the end of the day, what was the battle being fought in epistemological terms? We can talk about "acceptance" and "safety" because these are abstracts without clear political goals - they exist solely within the minds of the individual to be debated upon in a collective; they're the mirror side of conservative "preserve our culture" style goals. So politically, groups must find real battles to fight. These took the form of simply mirroring that of their external contemporaries; say, fighting for civil unions, fighting for gay marriage. So what happened, that with all those battles won, the tide broke? Did conservatives simply push back too hard? Did the government infiltrate the movement? There's a quote, the famous wave speech, from Fear & Loathing In Las Vegas about the 60s counterculture I feel is apt:
And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn't need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting—on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave.…
So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.The truth is that there is no simple answer such as movements being "hijacked". The fact is that time keeps moving and as such political goals lose material ends and became more abstract while also being further intertwined with the system it tried to fight. For all the talk of opposition and danger, the fact is - in some format - institutionally the fight was absorbed separate from the identities of those originally fighting it. No longer was it about fighting for the truth or righteousness of the identities, it was about winning economic & sociopolitical battles within the capitalist system. As thompson notes, the cultural battles we fight are no longer a simple youth vs old guard fight of good & evil anymore. The classical nature of these fights are reduced back to abstracts connected by a thread at best to their material political goals. There is no longer a real tether that holds groups within the connected sphere together anymore either; that momentum has been shifted as systematically collective material goals have been replaced with individual ones.
Someone else in the thread mentioned about how certain times felt "violent" during political turmoil, and I think that's a good term to use - not because this was a physical war in the sense of Stonewall all the way through, but rather because the victories fought by those battling them felt violent. The rulings for gay marriage and anti-discrimination suits, and laws that followed as such on a state and local level, and the very acceptance into the systematic social fabric were violent victories; not in the physical sense, but in their integral intensity. Now, however, you may see a pushback, but is that pushback really against these same victories in a meaningful material manner? Almost 75% of americans support gay marriage. Talk or discussion of anti-gay sentiment is just as individualist as talk of radical acceptance or liberation - it may as well be an argument over someone's favorite color that can turn violent in the same way as a bad discussion in a bar. The fight has shifted milestones and the talking points have changed because it is no longer being fought outside the system. Kurt Vonnegut said it best on Vietnam:
Every respectable artist in this country was against the war. It was like a laser beam. We were all aimed in the same direction. The power of this weapon turns out to be that of a custard pie dropped from a stepladder six feet high.
- Mar 1, 2023
BGi wanna see real gays real f**s out there on the streets
america needs a new gaystar.
someone the people can relate to
in the small towns in the medium cities
i wanna see big cocks and big hearts
lets go america
rock hard with the cock hard
starbucks pride my ass
bring it back to the mom and pops diners coffee shops 
Mar 1, 2023BGi wanna see real gays real f**s out there on the streets
america needs a new gaystar.
someone the people can relate to
in the small towns in the medium cities
i wanna see big cocks and big hearts
lets go america
rock hard with the cock hard
starbucks pride my ass
bring it back to the mom and pops diners coffee shops
- Mar 1, 2023·2 repliesGlentothe
Because the trans community has hijacked the movement and are- probably inadvertently, alienating people to the push for equality because of how over the top and in your face they are about their gender identity when us non-bigoted people couldn’t care less about their gender. This is just an observation as the community doesn’t reflect me, I’m all for people living how they want to live. A couple of my gay friends have said that they have observed trans groups trying to exclude LGB people from marches and parades as well which goes entirely against the movement which is about inclusion and equality. I think a lot of the trans lobby manifests itself as anger which is often misdirected.
All that Hogwarts Legacy stuff certainly didn’t help for a lot of people that’s all I’ll say.
- Mar 1, 2023BG
i wanna see real gays real f**s out there on the streets
america needs a new gaystar.
someone the people can relate to
in the small towns in the medium cities
i wanna see big cocks and big hearts
lets go america
rock hard with the cock hard
starbucks pride my ass
bring it back to the mom and pops diners coffee shopswho has came (pause) closer to being USA's gay star?
- Mar 1, 2023·1 reply
RASIEStop watching Vice first of all.
Progress has stalled because barely anybody cares about making progress. Like virtually every other identity-based movement, it has been willingly given over to corporate and capital interests to do whatever they please with. Progress (i.e., material change and organization taking action towardd it) has been gleefully replaced with "progress" in the mainstream, where the utmost importance is put on images, symbols, and identification that will never result in anything more than superficial distractions for people who are bored and unfulfilled in their middle-class existence.
Legalizing gay marriage wasn't even much progress to begin with. The biggest change that resulted from legal gay marriage was same-sex couples being eligible for marital tax benefits. Gay couple could always have a ceremony and spend their lives together like any other married couple. There is nothing special about the state officially recognizing your relationship.
That empty sentiment is just the capstone in the bullshit mainstreaming of gayness (and other subcultures) that has been going on for the past 35 years. Asking "why has progress stalled" today is stupid. It's been stalled for over three decades ever since idea of making gay people safe enough for mainstream consumers to enjoy started being celebrated.
It's still insane to me that legalizing gay marriage was such a media blockbuster when fortune 500 companies and regional powerhouses have always (and still) tailor the language of their training and disclosure materials to either include or omit protections against employment discrimination in regards to sexual orientation based on which state they are hiring you in, or sometime which state the company is headquartered in.
Watching s*** like that Vice video or scrolling through social media looking for anti-gay bullshit all day can make anything feel dangerous. Sensation isn't reality. Unless you're living in a 1200 population Mississippi or Alabama town where local bars wont let you inside if you're hat is turned backwards, there's no rational reason for any gay person living in metro-America to feel in danger. If gay people were actually in danger then we would see a lot more of actual action and collectivism towards material change instead of a s*** ton of "ong did you see this? i am scared" reactions to fearmongering media nonsense.
Maybe for like white liberal gays, it’s still dangerous to be a trans person especially a trans woman in major cities
- Mar 1, 2023Glentothe
Because the trans community has hijacked the movement and are- probably inadvertently, alienating people to the push for equality because of how over the top and in your face they are about their gender identity when us non-bigoted people couldn’t care less about their gender. This is just an observation as the community doesn’t reflect me, I’m all for people living how they want to live. A couple of my gay friends have said that they have observed trans groups trying to exclude LGB people from marches and parades as well which goes entirely against the movement which is about inclusion and equality. I think a lot of the trans lobby manifests itself as anger which is often misdirected.
Bro what the f*** are you talking about ☠️☠️
Mar 1, 2023GlentotheBecause the trans community has hijacked the movement and are- probably inadvertently, alienating people to the push for equality because of how over the top and in your face they are about their gender identity when us non-bigoted people couldn’t care less about their gender. This is just an observation as the community doesn’t reflect me, I’m all for people living how they want to live. A couple of my gay friends have said that they have observed trans groups trying to exclude LGB people from marches and parades as well which goes entirely against the movement which is about inclusion and equality. I think a lot of the trans lobby manifests itself as anger which is often misdirected.
5 people liked this bullshit
- Mar 1, 2023blonded
if u only interact with hyper left wing terminally online trans people on twitter i see how u get this view
still a dumbass comment though
Right lmao no trans person I’ve met in real life has been remotely like this. They’re just trying to live life and not get hate crimed
- Mar 1, 2023·2 replies
Please please please meet gay people in real life instead of reading Twitter
- Mar 1, 2023
So obvious how many of y’all get your opinion on this stuff from reading cherry picked Twitter posts
Mar 1, 2023krishna boundactual long post now
firstly, i don't think it's really fair to equate LGBT movements intrinsically to leftism. it's true of course that the two intersected many times historically (just as racial civil rights movements did on both ends too) , but there is no intrinsic connection between LGBT and any specific political movements (in the US or abroad), just allyship at times in terms of similar goals. For the purpose of this conversation though it makes more sense to limit the discussion to America as the modern understanding of LGBT movements is basically an Americanism more than anything else. In that sense, we ave to acknowledge there is just as much a history of right wing LGBT movements in the US as there is leftist ones. Much of the reason we now group LGBT groups with leftism is due to a false equivalence made in the post-WW2 era by the US government, where President Eisenhower & Senator McCarthy included gays in their umbrella of McCarthyism investigations. This of course had the result of pushing LGBT people into outer/alien spaces which of course were occupied by those also excluded - at the time i.e. Marxists, etc. ; however this was not still a direct connection as much as it was a means of communication. What is often not talked about at this time are movements such as the Gay Voter's League, which often campaigned for Republican Candidates (including Nixon!), the rise of Log Cabin Republicans (which successfully lobbied against many anti-gay measures in the US), and prior to that, of course, the movements of gay people who supported Fascism - that quote from Maxim Gorky exists for a reason, it was not just fabricated due to hating Nazis. Just as the succession of Dadism led to Fascism, the "rebuild all culture with new values" ideas was appealing to many disenfranchised LGBT at the time, especially abroad since it was not true that Marxism and LGBT rights were seen (internally or externally) as one and the same. While of course this was seen more in Europe, it did also exist in the US.
Of course, all the above is basically just historical window dressing. Of course LGBT people were historically targeted politically within the US and elsewhere in the same manner as political Leftists. The point is though that the threat there was visceral; fighting for what was not just a political ends but a deep cultural victory. For as much as LGBT people may come from different labels or walks of life, there is a reason the letters are (were) grouped together over time and it's because the original cultural battle was about, at its heart, the ability to hold differential cultural values and still co-exist alongside others; this is how it materializes in strains of all subcultural movements from Punk to Jon Waters' shock Cinema. This was a shared value between groups - whether they be transgender, gay, etc. Now, here is the issue; years pass, and this victory was essentially won. Or, well, it was was won insofar as the system accepted the asks of the people fighting it. Because, at the end of the day, what was the battle being fought in epistemological terms? We can talk about "acceptance" and "safety" because these are abstracts without clear political goals - they exist solely within the minds of the individual to be debated upon in a collective; they're the mirror side of conservative "preserve our culture" style goals. So politically, groups must find real battles to fight. These took the form of simply mirroring that of their external contemporaries; say, fighting for civil unions, fighting for gay marriage. So what happened, that with all those battles won, the tide broke? Did conservatives simply push back too hard? Did the government infiltrate the movement? There's a quote, the famous wave speech, from Fear & Loathing In Las Vegas about the 60s counterculture I feel is apt:
And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn't need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting—on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave.…
So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.The truth is that there is no simple answer such as movements being "hijacked". The fact is that time keeps moving and as such political goals lose material ends and became more abstract while also being further intertwined with the system it tried to fight. For all the talk of opposition and danger, the fact is - in some format - institutionally the fight was absorbed separate from the identities of those originally fighting it. No longer was it about fighting for the truth or righteousness of the identities, it was about winning economic & sociopolitical battles within the capitalist system. As thompson notes, the cultural battles we fight are no longer a simple youth vs old guard fight of good & evil anymore. The classical nature of these fights are reduced back to abstracts connected by a thread at best to their material political goals. There is no longer a real tether that holds groups within the connected sphere together anymore either; that momentum has been shifted as systematically collective material goals have been replaced with individual ones.
Someone else in the thread mentioned about how certain times felt "violent" during political turmoil, and I think that's a good term to use - not because this was a physical war in the sense of Stonewall all the way through, but rather because the victories fought by those battling them felt violent. The rulings for gay marriage and anti-discrimination suits, and laws that followed as such on a state and local level, and the very acceptance into the systematic social fabric were violent victories; not in the physical sense, but in their integral intensity. Now, however, you may see a pushback, but is that pushback really against these same victories in a meaningful material manner? Almost 75% of americans support gay marriage. Talk or discussion of anti-gay sentiment is just as individualist as talk of radical acceptance or liberation - it may as well be an argument over someone's favorite color that can turn violent in the same way as a bad discussion in a bar. The fight has shifted milestones and the talking points have changed because it is no longer being fought outside the system. Kurt Vonnegut said it best on Vietnam:
Every respectable artist in this country was against the war. It was like a laser beam. We were all aimed in the same direction. The power of this weapon turns out to be that of a custard pie dropped from a stepladder six feet high.
Oh, hell naw... lol.
- Mar 1, 2023·1 reply
Congrats or sorry for your loss @krishna_bound
- Mar 1, 2023
lol
- Mar 1, 2023·2 repliesSmoofer
Please please please meet gay people in real life instead of reading Twitter
you can't really talk about real life vs twitter but then cite fearmongering about trans hate crimes. the statistics you hear online sound scary until you realize the number of transgender deaths is like 50...nationally. these numbers come from actual LGBT groups, so these aren't like conservatives trying to downplaying it. You can definitely say these are underreported but how much can you really downplay "violent deaths"? Even if we assume this is fractional, at max you aren't going to get an increase from like 50 to several hundred. Almost all these "hate crimes" are also not a derivative of trans identity but almost always a result of circumstance - usually prostitution, d*** exchange, or homeless, all of which themselves have an over-representation of crime which mimics the statistical numbers of transgender crimes/deaths vs the avg population. Of course, every death or crime is a tragedy - not what i'm saying - but this idea that trans people are being systematically hunted down just isn't true. Trans people are more likely to simply face the same problems from economic distress as others in impoverished circumstances with no safety nets.
- RASIE 🎣Mar 1, 2023·1 replySmoofer
Maybe for like white liberal gays, it’s still dangerous to be a trans person especially a trans woman in major cities
I'm sure it is, and im sure its the case even outside major cities. I dont have any solid knowledge on specifics but my gut would assume that at least in big metro areas its more of an issue of what area of the city you're in, which is also dictated by if you're employed and how much income you have.
I know Atlanta has at least 2 major areas that are very gay and trans friendly where it always seemed like everyone was comfortable being themselves there — but theres big swaths of Atlanta that are the opposite im sure.
I live in a city with twice the population of Atlanta now and a few of there suburbs seem to be safe havens for trans people. One of the first people we met when we moved here was a former veteran trans girl who came up to our table out of nowhere at 10pm in IHOP lol. She introduced herself and talked about how she overheard us saying we're new here and figured we were gay from context
- Mar 1, 2023·1 replySmoofer
Congrats or sorry for your loss @krishna_bound
i will write long posts on cultural topics so long as there are people to read them
- Mar 1, 2023·1 replykrishna bound
you can't really talk about real life vs twitter but then cite fearmongering about trans hate crimes. the statistics you hear online sound scary until you realize the number of transgender deaths is like 50...nationally. these numbers come from actual LGBT groups, so these aren't like conservatives trying to downplaying it. You can definitely say these are underreported but how much can you really downplay "violent deaths"? Even if we assume this is fractional, at max you aren't going to get an increase from like 50 to several hundred. Almost all these "hate crimes" are also not a derivative of trans identity but almost always a result of circumstance - usually prostitution, d*** exchange, or homeless, all of which themselves have an over-representation of crime which mimics the statistical numbers of transgender crimes/deaths vs the avg population. Of course, every death or crime is a tragedy - not what i'm saying - but this idea that trans people are being systematically hunted down just isn't true. Trans people are more likely to simply face the same problems from economic distress as others in impoverished circumstances with no safety nets.
Where did I cite any statistic or talk about murders? I didn’t say trans people are getting mowed down, I’m saying trans people that I’ve met irl are scared of being attacked for their transness. Maybe it’s from them getting caught up in sensationalism but it’s also true that none of these statistics can truly describe the trans experience. Someone throwing rocks at your car (anecdotal but literally happened to a friend of mine getting in her car in Hollywood) doesn’t get recorded by the FBI or whatever
- Mar 1, 2023·1 replyRASIE
I'm sure it is, and im sure its the case even outside major cities. I dont have any solid knowledge on specifics but my gut would assume that at least in big metro areas its more of an issue of what area of the city you're in, which is also dictated by if you're employed and how much income you have.
I know Atlanta has at least 2 major areas that are very gay and trans friendly where it always seemed like everyone was comfortable being themselves there — but theres big swaths of Atlanta that are the opposite im sure.
I live in a city with twice the population of Atlanta now and a few of there suburbs seem to be safe havens for trans people. One of the first people we met when we moved here was a former veteran trans girl who came up to our table out of nowhere at 10pm in IHOP lol. She introduced herself and talked about how she overheard us saying we're new here and figured we were gay from context
Oh definitely there’s pockets of acceptance but just the fact there’s areas of town where there’s a legitimate risk of being attacked for being trans is pretty validating of their concerns
