Some of the downplaying ITT is odd to see, since this type of rhetoric is being used by mainstream conservatives to describe their “problem” with trans people, which looks like genocidal intent

I used to think I was stupid not knowing people like this

But I am so glad to be blind to this branch of media in favour of books about animals & plants

If that type of stuff is enough to make someone not care about a whole group of people anymore then I'm pretty sure that person never cared in the first place

He said genetics?

The word genos was widely and variously used in Greek of all periods to denote 'species', 'genus', 'sort', 'category', 'birth', 'kin', 'race', 'lineage', 'family', 'generation', 'posterity', etc.

big trans!

At this point, to me it feels like more of a distraction causing division than anything helping progress for the larger population

Class war isn’t gonna happen. The country is split in half arguing about the trans population so they are not going to talk about addressing the class issues.

i think hate crime or "danger" denotes more than its most extreme form (violent deaths)

while its true trans people aren't getting murdered at a super high rate, verbal harassment, physical intimidation, discrimination from housing, employment and healthcare are all issues that trans people face. verbal harassment can still feel dangerous even if theres not an imminent threat since you're not sure whether or not it could escalate

TRANS! trump voice

oh so u d***heads can spend all day debating but nobody can tell me what actually needs to get done? smh lol

It's always happening imo it's not that much of a diversion people just gotta realize every oppressions are rooted in the same thing, the real distraction is people making it seem like it's a distraction Imo

Exactly

In the case of trans people better access to healthcare, better protection against discrimination, etc.

feel like there just needs to be the social acceptance portion to be spread throughout society still for LGB folks

trans people are the ones facing big institutional threats in the form of laws

Why're you yelling you ugly b****

well no, horoscopes are at least helpful

Where Progress can be made:

• economically: starting businesses, representation in the workplace, equality being hired

• health care: make sure trans people can transition safely, anti-discrimination laws in the sector,

• Education: no erasure of queer existence in schools, homophobic transphobic discrimnatory bullying, educate teachers and parents to not make their child kill themselves

• Legislation: same s***still illegal in half the countries on the planet, trans rights are even worse in that respect, ability to change name and s***and have that recognized

• Homelessness: countries like Turkey or Italy have high homeless rates for lgbt people. They cant rent apartments or find jobs on worst cases

• crime: especially trans people have a way higher rate of being sexually abused, raped or assaulted. Even in the most modern countries hate crime rates are disproportionaly high

The same places where this is happening, i guarantee you you'd get a similar reaction if you walked there wearing unisex designer clothing or alt styled clothing something.

idk why you're acting like this is confined to rural Alabaman towns, trans people can and do face identity-based harassment in cities. im pretty sure you've said that trans identity is still not really a well-known topic thats adequately understood by most Americans. wouldn't this increase the likelihood of people being harassed and discriminated against specifically due to them being trans and looking, talking, acting, etc. a different way? its crazy to equate the harassment derived from being trans to harassment from wearing edgy clothes

its like comparing the level of vitriol targeted at Harry Styles for wearing a skirt VS the level of hate thats targeted at trans people by right-wing pundits

similarly, why are so many trans people ostracized from their families after coming out? is it not specifically because of them being trans? and what is the material and psychological cost of being effectively disowned?

another thing I'd bring up is why do you think trans people have higher rates of homelessness and unemployment? is it possibly due to discrimination from landlords and employers? likewise, could the prevalence of trans people in s***work be caused by discrimination in formal employment opportunities?

it feels like you're trying to disprove the stigmatization and specific issues that trans people face by saying its not intrinsically because they're trans, but due to the broader socio-economic groups they belong to. thus, trans issues aren't necessarily just "trans" issues, but issues that affect all lower-class people who are homeless, s***workers, etc. i'm not sure if this is what you're arguing but I'd wholly disagree

Like it should be obvious that not every problem in every country is similar. However queer people exist everywhere and we cannot just all move. And even in the "modell" countries you have constant pushing of certain groups against lgbt interests.

If you go to america you still have: difficulties getting the right medical care, discrimination, higher chance of being assaulted, increased suicide rates

uhh my two cents i think it’s just like really deep rooted homophobia and transphobia etc. it’s a moorish mix of Biblical literalism (or literalism generally) in the Abrahamic religions that condemn homosexuality, then the whole “facts don’t care about your feelings” angle against transphobes, a worship of sheer human reason and science ™️ it’s a pretty nasty mixture in all honesty

it seems like same s***marriage was begrudgingly accepted, and people are simply looking for some sort of othering in the current political climate to stick their blames on for all of the problems and pallor in the world, the LGBT+ is just the current flavor unfortunately

a relevant anecdote, somebody that i know had moved to live with their biological father and mother (they were previously estranged) and they both put him out of their household(s) because he was gay, anecdotes aren’t worth much, but for me personally it really reinforced to me that homosexuality and everything in between has a very deep rooted aversion to it, and it’s gonna be awhile until acceptance can generally progress, it’s ‘better’ but im under the impression that it isn’t as good as i’d like it to be nor think tbh

i think this also shows that time really is a flat circle, niggas were fuming at LGBT+ feminism, drag queens etc. back in 2015-2016 or so, now the pendulum has swung back and here we are all over again

The whole “oh it’s all from the same thing” way of thinking is cool but general class war is way more universal than queer causes. Imo it would be better to focus on the more universal aspects to unite people against the problem. We’re arguing about 5% of the problem instead of working on any of it. If it is all connected as you say then why not change the whole system for the better and things should follow suit? I’m tired of the bickering about why people wear dresses.

I didn't say anything about rural towns specifically nor act like this was a countryside issue. However the point stands that you're likely to see an overlap in discriminatory or harassing behavior for being trans in the same places you'd see such behavior for non-derivative identities - again literally hence in part why the term "LGBTQ" was grouped together to begin with, since the discrimination is for those seen as not abiding by cultural norms. Acting like I'm only talking about rural areas is projection.
Secondly, of course someone like Harry Styles is not receiving harassment on the level of a transgender person. That's a bad faith comparison. Styles is seeking attention on the red carpet and is rich. This once again is distinguished alongside bourgeois vs working class lines. Someone like styles is appropriating the controversial nature of others' identities knowing very well he's protected in the public conscious while others are not.
Try to dress like Harry Styles in Inner City Detroit or North Philadelphia if you truly believe harassment is only targeted at transgender self-identifying people specifically and not just those not abiding by derivative gender norms. Statistically, trans violence - in any form, but especially in terms of active violence - is not happening in redneck backwoods areas. It's happening in impoverished inner cities, this is just a literal fact. This doesn't change the fact I'm sure you'd see similar behavior in a trailer park in west virginia, but statistically that's not where this is happening. The fact that right wingers have vile rhetoric does not change the fact that it's disconnected from actual violence, unless you're trying to argue speech is violence (under which I disagree). Of course, I'm not trying to turn this into some argument over cosmopolitanism. That's a distraction from the main point at hand and a tangent at best.
The fact that there's a legal apparatus for which conservatives with platforms are attempting to disenfranchise trans people is a completely different issue - and more complex. The extent to which laws in this regard affect outcomes is a different conservation - but also one which falls along distinct lineages from anything I've said in this conversation. These are cultural battles being fought on both sides without clear end goals.
That said, no one is denying - myself included - that this political apparatus is discriminatory, and I haven't mentioned anything denying this in any post I've made, including the essay I wrote several pages ago.
However, the points you make act like I am - you say "why are trans people ostracized" / "what is the material/psychological cost of being disowned" - in what manner am I denying this is a problem? This goes back to what I said in my longer post - what is the political battle there when you tell me these things exist, and I don't deny them. Is the goal to force a legal structure that forces people to accept their kids? While a noble goal it's unrealistic and at the end of the day that is an individual fight, not a political or material one. This is a similar argument in epistemology who think that laws can solve racism - the point isn't to "solve" racism, the point is to create a framework in which racism is powerless on a socioeconomic basis. There is no answer for "solving" hatred, and fixating on the fact people are hated rather than attempting to fix the results of ostracization is destined to be a losing battle. If you wish to fight epistemology, you are no longer waging a political battle, you're waging a cultural one in the same way evangelicals are.
So with that, we can establish the focus really moves to "how can we actually help trans people who find themselves in that situation" - what the entire basis of the discussion should be . This is where you lose me because there is no intrinsic connection that them being trans has vs others in similar situations. I am not denying there may be an intrinsic connection between them being trans and others hating them - the same could be said of race, gender, religion, etc. ; but social hatred only intersects with political fundamentals, especially in the modern era, it does not fuel it. The issues they face from an economic and political perspective - the ones actually solvable - once in this scenario is representative of the lack of safety nets for those who face these individual struggles/battles. Trying to argue that they face extreme specialized, criminal level hatred is statistically not true and relies solely on anecdotes. Correlation does note equal causation of course, but the fact that the statistics are mirrored by others in the same scenarios, especially in terms of things like s***work and violence, paint a picture for at least understanding material conditions. Now you may say, again, "but they're there because they're trans", and while that may be true in some scenarios of course, how does that actually change the argument for how to fix it? There are lots of reasons that people end up in ostracized or similar scenarios which are specific but also collectivized in terms of trends. Fixating on this rather than broader political victories is not only useless but completely decimates your own argument because of the associated statistics to the argument. Now, beyond that, if you want to make arguments about the distinctions of trans identity vs others (i.e. the need for specialized medical care), sure, I will give you that - but that's a distinct argument - and also neither here nor there as I haven't said anything against specialized medical care. However, that still comes back to the wider point; that is an actual political goal. If you want to fight for specialized care, you have to actually fight for specialized care. You cannot be fighting the war of "stopping discrimination" only to then rebut to "actually this means..." once pushed in an argument on it to find specifics. Political victories require explicit political means and ends; all I'm saying is that fixating on cultural ones is not only fruitless but statistically isn't even agreeable by most of the population unless they base their view on anecdotes.

word

are there like specific laws in mind or like bills to back type s***?

Why is the politics section separated from the life section in the first place? Seems really tone deaf to say that politics, especially legislation related to trans rights, is separate from life