All governments, calling themselves liberators, have promised to dismantle the fortresses erected by tyranny to hold the people in subjugation; but far from dismantling them, once installed they have only gone on to fortify them further, to continue to use them against the people. Bastilles are destroyed by the people: governments build them and maintain them. Suicide is not the natural order of things. No power, no authority in the world has ever destroyed itself. No tyrant has ever dismantled a fortress once he has entered it. On the contrary, every authoritarian organism, every tyranny tends always to spread, to establish itself even more, by its very nature. Power inebriates and even the best can become the worst once they are vested with authority. “The greatest lover of freedom, as soon as he assumes power, unless he is of little worth, wants everyone to bow to his wishes.”

marxists.org/archive/cafiero/1881/our-revolution.html - Carlo Cafiero

is it anarchism to just want society to fail and humans to claw at survival until it wipes itself out?

or is that just misanthropy?

misanthropy there’s many branch of anarchist most common is anarcho communist who differ from communist on the DOTP, as anarchist think we can transition into communism without needing the DOTP while communist disagree. Conquest of Bread is a great intro book for anarchism.

not surprised since misanthropy is a far larger factor for me than anarchy/anarchism and socialism

nah nvm i thought misanthropy meant not true not a dislike of humankind anarchism has nothing to do with that that’s up to the individual

wait he was describing himself mb i can barely speak one language

thats liberalism

but i hate liberals

explain

wait what lol

also liberalism

read conquest of bread by kropotkin cuz liberal hegemony has hid the actual meaning of the term anarchism from you

yea thats not even an ideology

gutting every single public sector infastructure and leaving the poor to scratch and claw to survive is basically what you are describing is a key indicator of neoliberal policies

many ways to skin cats

the poor? i said all. current wealth would and should mean nothing and the rich would be just ass open to claw. how can wealth and status mean anything without society or systems

if it's a simpler way to understand, nuke the world and all humans die out

maybe not a political one

yeah just a dumb one lol

to you. i didn't say it was meant to further society or be implemented by a government, it's a personal belief

especially in terms of mfs in america

i genuinely don't know what it is. i've always thought it's just no gov and ppl fighting for themselves. that's why i asked if it was xx or just because of misanthropy

ok. seems pretty pretentious to have the 'personal belief' that americans should go extinct because you dont like them

not to be a d*** I just think you should think critically about whether thats a well-thought out belief or just anger

unless this is some anti-anthropocentrism type s***. in which case I agree with your general idea but not your conclusion

i moreso believe humans are more of an issue to the world than a positive. history and just frequent behavior are what leads me to believe that

and it's not americans, it's all, i simply meant especially americans, since i live here and see how garbage they are. i don't think demonizing at least half a nation of ppl for it's current bs and it's history of completely inhumane and savage deeds is simply "not liking them". they're an example, not the only ones.

i guess the latter kinda fits, cause i don't think humanity is special. i'm just saying the absolute, best and most realistic conclusion is for us to be eradicated, cause i don't see everyone becoming united, not with greed and religion around

ultimately anarchism can be described as an ideology opposed to all unjust hierarchy.

these socialists believe that all forms of power will be used to maintain power and therefore any power that is unjust must be abolished.

the key here is to use this a***ytical framework called Dialectical materialism to a***yze where the contradictions in society are appearing and how to identify and categorize societal contradictions in complex societies with many moving parts. Dialectic meaning viewing the points of conflict and material referring to people's relationships to production.

for instance, landlordship is exploitative because the conditions of the landlord-tenant relationship is to extract value from one end without creating value, on the basis that you deserve to extract value from others simply because you hold capital and they do not.

it makes sense to assume humanity may be inherently evil. its pretty obvious to assume so given the blatant greed, grifting and exploitation rampant in our capitalist society. in this way socialism is an optimistic philosophy, yes, in that it asserts the possibility of an organization of society other than this one that believes itself to be the only and best possible organization. however, it is also a philosophy deeply rooted in scientific and material a***ysis.

essentially, it is the practical study of how to organize society: not in a naive attempt to create a "utopia", but to reorganize the very base of society in such a way to make meaningful exploitation impossible.

like kai is implying to the behaviour of humanity is at least partially a reflection of the organizing relations of our societies. we live in a system that encourages and sometimes demands greed, self-interest, and superficiality

ur ideology only makes sense if you can prove that human beings are irredeemably selfish and evil. i dont think there is any real basis for this

also I feel like ur making a lot of assumptions ethically, even if we're both looking at this in a "utilitarian" way. for example that all suffering is equivalent. or that we shouldn't take potential future value into account

Great points made above but I just want to add that repeating talking points which boil down to "humans are a net negative more than a net positive" is take which stems from white supremacy. That's how you get those White Boy scrawny f***ing mass murderers. F*** that s***.

I also agree with the above posters that it stems from rage and an overall lack of maturity of political thinking. I'm not completely convinced this is where you're going with your post, though. I'm a bit confused.

I am sure you know that there are societies which existed in the Americas, Asia and Africa which were set up on a familial basis with communal means of production and existence which were no way near the European model of exploitation. This means that it's not about humans, it's about the social organization.

Politics is inherently violent, obviously ranging in severity. You have something like the purging of settlers in the Haitan revolution on one end, and something like cops maintaining a social order on the other end.

Violence just for violence sake, without a political ideology / motive behind it, (which what we see you advocating here) is just a wanton loss of life. That's why people are disagreeing with your takes, and seeing them as immature. It's not about politics, it's just being misanthropic.

not surprised, and seeing as white people, america and europeans, are a root cause for his belief i'm not at all surprised it can be tied to white supremacy.

it's not meant to be a political belief tho. like nothing to do with politics or economics anywhere near the center of thinking. it's simply about how humans, regardless of race, religion or country are trash and i don't think our existence is that important.

it's not supposed to be a mature or academic take. I wouldn't expect most to agree. the only thing this ever had to do with politics was me asking "does this view fit into anarchism". it was never something like "i think this is a good plan for society, nor was it me trying to convince anyone of agreeing. I just replied cause they replied.

Makes sense. I feel like that sometimes. I think we all do. The world is very negative. That's why we turn to politics because we see the world as malleable. That's our coping mechanism. It's a way of thinking positively.

While you're here, I would recommend you to read "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" by Walter Rodney, if you're interested in learning more about how Africa used to be, and how Europe f***ed it up.

Wish you luck in your political / philosophical journey!