I just seen an NH poll with yang at like 1%
I’m sure it’s not actually that low but dang
If he doesn’t get 15% in NH he really should drop out

I don’t think anyone knows what a libertarian is anymore.

They're both proposing different ideas from eachother?

Yang qualified

UBI is the best policy position of any 2020 candidate.

Not when you cut welfare to do it

Have you ever been on welfare by chance? You act as if it's this great thing. UBI doesn't go away when you start to do a little better

the main attraction is the yang bucks?

$12k/year? that’s barely enough to give birth in an American hospital

Economist estimates from 2016 found that median effective income from rise by $22k under a Bernie presidency

google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/bernie-sanders-median-income-would-soar-and-poverty-would-fall-under-democrat-policies-study-finds-a6863136.html%3famp

All my life. Welfare isn't a great thing, but it has done good for a lot of people. But the myth that it disincentives people from doing better in order to continue to get welfare is just that, a myth.

But the issue is this, yes UBi would likely result in net positive "money" for most and universal programs are inherently good. But let's say you receive 600 in welfare programs a month. You would prolly take the UBI. But youre really only getting 400 a month because you still need to spend that 600 on food and s*** that was previously given to you from welfare. So this kind of UBI gives more to those not on welfare and the rich. Its not progressive.

Its also an issue that his UBI is seen as a counter measure to automaton. Let's say he's right. 33% lose their jobs. Well ubi is literally only 12k a year. That ain't s***. You're response to automaton cannot be 1k bucks a month. Thats less than 10 dollars an hour.

You can find studies to support anything, studies showed Trump would wreck the economy and that hasn’t happened yet. There are also studies that UBI would help significantly. If there was a general consensus among economists that Bernie would help the economy I’d listen, but currently there are plenty of economists who disagree.

But I think the federal jobs guarantee is a dumb idea. Guaranteeing work is a good way to get poor quality work, doesn’t help people who can’t or just don’t want to work, and I can’t imagine many people would line up to work for a government job that would lack purpose and in turn, dignity.

Free college is a good thing to aim for, but the way Bernie touts it as if it’s a solution to income inequality is laughable to me. The issue is that people are wasting money on college degrees when there aren’t enough jobs that need those degrees, majority of graduates aren’t getting jobs in their field or jobs that even require degrees. So the idea is flawed at the premise, but also fails in execution when you realize that a lot of people who don’t go to college because they don’t want to. Basically every person I can think of who didn’t go to college didn’t do so because they didn’t want to, not because they couldn’t afford it.

And people want to say UBI is regressive, but ignore that the people who benefit from forgiving student debt are generally people who were privileged enough to go to college to begin with, rather than people truly at the bottom; and people who would benefit from free college are people who would do well in college, which works against poor people.

I will say Bernie’s heart is in the right place and I think he’s a genuine guy, and I wouldn’t be mad at him becoming president. I just disagree with his solutions.

On the subject of UBI, I kind of agree with Synopsis that it isn’t enough money, but the idea as Yang has described it is capitalism that doesn’t start at 0, and it’s basically padding to give people more financial freedom. You would see a lot more people taking risks on doing things they want to do; people may invest, open small businesses, may go to college, may choose to stay at home raising their children instead of working and paying for daycare and ending around the same 12k Mark, renovate their homes and ultimately increase the value of their house, band together with a group and use the money to fund a f***ing commune. $12k isn’t enough to live off, but an unconditional guaranteed $12k is enough to help scary choices seem less risky.

And I’m already writing a novel but on the subject of the welfare myth, I don’t think many people choose to not work out of fear of losing benefits, but I think it has created a culture of single parenthood, which is bad for society and both of these claims are supported by statistics. UBI would incentivize parents to stay together, as you would be getting double the UBI as a couple than you would as a single parent. This would overall be better for society.

Edit: also the democracy dollars idea is the best idea I’ve heard to offset corporate money in politics. And on the subject of giving birth costing a lot of money, Yang also has healthcare policies lol.

Idk how to reply to more than one person at a time but I replied to your post in that last one lol

deleting most of this because theory said it in a much more eloquent and complete way, but i'll leave up this tweet

this is a good thread if you have the time/if u want : twitter.com/klogsdon27/status/1197233208489889799

You're saying it's a myth but exactly how? Does it not just get taken away from you if/when you start to make more? In my experiences welfare does help overall but it's a broken system and can be a giant pain in the ass. With UBI you wouldn't have to deal with the frustrations of trying to get/keep your benefits and instead dedicate all your energy into improving your situation.

One of the most frustrating things I've ever dealt with in life is getting laid off then trying to sit there for hours and apply for these benefits and then wait weeks for them to process to see if I'm even approved, very dehumanizing.

Will respond to all that shortly

Y do u still use this site if u were de modded

Because i don't care about being a mod?

Y were u demodded

How do you know this? Like, where is the data to back this up that federal jobs are poor quality, especially when bernie would make sure they are union jobs as well. The amount of people who straight up don't want to work is very small as well, and if they don't want to work they aren't getting any income. So yang's solution would literally just be to give them 12k a month, its not like that keeps them out of poverty lol. You're idea that these jobs would lack "purpose and dignity" is completely made up, backed by nothing.

No, he doesn't tout it as a solution to income inequality. He touts it as a way to end the achievement gap in education, which is a driver of inequality. It's one part of a larger plan to narrow that gap as much as possible. This other stuff you cited here is kind of baseless as well. The average college graduate still makes sufficiently more than non college graduates, and the issue isn't that people are getting degrees and then not getting jobs in those fields. It's that those fields don't pay sufficiently to offset student loan debt and the cost of living. that can be fixed with smart policy, such as tuition free college. You can give personal anecdotes about these people you know all you want, but the fact remains is that the most commonly cited reason for not attending college is either the overall cost of it. Tuition free college and other details in bernie's plan address this, and this will most heavily impact lower and middle income households.

And people want to say UBI is regressive, but ignore that the people who benefit from forgiving student debt are generally people who were privileged enough to go to college to begin with, rather than people truly at the bottom; and people who would benefit from free college are people who would do well in college, which works against poor people.

Uhm, literally everyone benefits from it lol. Yeah it's a privilege to go to college, but guess what the rich kids don't have student loan debt to begin with because their parents can just pay it. And the second part just sounds classist and racist. Poor kids have just as much aptitude for school as their counterparts, especially when you give them the proper funding in k-12 schooling, which Bernie wants to do. You are literally arguing against free college because you think poor people don't want to college and even if they did they would do poorly. I want you to genuinely step back for a second and realize how f***ing ridiculous that sounds. Not to mention, even if they don't want to go to a four year institution, under the propsal, trade schools are free too. Whats actually funny is that yang is propsing a similar FTT to help pay for his UBI that Bernie would for free college. Except the FTT gets us to the mark for tuition free college, i dont think it gets us even 10% there for UBI.

Again, it's not 12k if you have welfare. It's 12k - current welfare benefits. And there is no reality where an extra 1k a month is enough to start taking risks. Also, for some people capitalism does start at 0. Some people have nothing at all. Here is the issue. Yang does not know what the actual problem is (or he does, but it's not beneficial for him to acknowledge it.) He thinks it's automation. He thinks it's that we need a more "humane" capitalism. And he's just completely off the mark. Bernie at least comes very close to diagnosing the issue, and based on his past i'm awfully certain he does understand the system is the issue. all this humane capitalism stuff is just a bunch of bullshit. And I guess we won't even go into detail on how much the average person would benefit economically from bernie's plans.

There are better ways to offset corporate money in politics lol. Idk why you'd support 23 billion dollars an election cycle for that. I'd rather give that money to efforts to end homelessness, which is an estimated 20 billion a year.

i've already acknowledged that most people would indeed take UBI over welfare benefits. but i'm also saying it's regressive because it would be giving more money in pocket to those higher up in the income bracket.

if you want to do UBI correctly, you do it in addition to welfare benefits, or hell even make it the inverse of a progressive tax system. start out really high for the lower income brackets, make it a lower and lower amount as you go up, and then keep it on top of welfare benefits.

like if you asked me what id do with 12k a year, well id spend a year and 8 months getting rid of student debt, assuming i don't accumulate any more interest in that time lol.

now ask a rich kid college graduate what he'd do, well he wouldn't have to worry about his student debt. so really, he has an extra 20k that i don't and income inequality continues to be reality.

UBI is the literal only solution to the automation/AI crisis that is gonna be the end of us in the coming years lol

the bare minimum of being able to eat and survive while being able to find zero work is why it’s the only solution

UBI?

People realize there will always be “income inequality” right? Lmao I think people need to start specifying what degree of inequality they are fine with.

I wouldn't be opposed to that but I still feel it's 100% a better option than the current system. And for those who are rich they wouldn't even benefit from it because they'd end up paying more than the $12000 in taxes on it. For the middle class they'd get taxed on it as well but still recieve a smaller positive income from it. This would be a system that not only helps people in poverty but also people who aren't quite poor enough to receive welfare but are still struggling and living paycheck to paycheck, giving them the freedom to pursue a more fulfilling life.