May 23, 2024·1 reply
kenni nixonThis thread is a prime example of why the political section needs to be abolished.
Telling a trans person who's rightly scared about their life/well being/medical services being cut off because of the right and y'all really telling her to die.
Y'all niggas ain't on s*** and need to get some New Aunts.
palestinians are also scared of being exterminated by a nazi government but as long as americans get theirs first at others expense that's what really matters I spose
again y'all dont even see this s*** as racism and xenophobia, its just second nature to sumyall
americana 🍷May 23, 2024·edited·3 replies
emoceanYes. I am trans and I am concerned that there will be an effort to remove my access to health care and maybe even criminalize my existence.
Biden ain’t gonna help y’all lol he’s been doing republican policy for them
Bro has f***ed over women, immigrants, Palestinians, and overpoliced black people, why is anyone looking to him to protect LGBT rights ? This country will never help minorities and oppressed peoples because their exploitation is the bread and butter for this country’s economy and cultural synthesis
That’s why the D party has been appeasing the “center” and “moderate right” over the “left” and the R party is appeasing the far right. No one will push left because that will hurt their bottom line.
F*** this system, join a local extrapolitical organization, arm yourself, read up, and get connected to allies. History is ugly and we are part of it. Don’t rely on the same system that oppresses you to save you
- May 23, 2024americana· edited
Biden ain’t gonna help y’all lol he’s been doing republican policy for them
Bro has f***ed over women, immigrants, Palestinians, and overpoliced black people, why is anyone looking to him to protect LGBT rights ? This country will never help minorities and oppressed peoples because their exploitation is the bread and butter for this country’s economy and cultural synthesis
That’s why the D party has been appeasing the “center” and “moderate right” over the “left” and the R party is appeasing the far right. No one will push left because that will hurt their bottom line.
F*** this system, join a local extrapolitical organization, arm yourself, read up, and get connected to allies. History is ugly and we are part of it. Don’t rely on the same system that oppresses you to save you
trans ally and serial rapist joe biden
May 23, 2024A vote for Trump is a vote for hate.
- May 23, 2024·2 repliesamericana
Biden ain’t gonna help y’all lol he’s been doing republican policy for them
Bro has f***ed over women, immigrants, Palestinians, and overpoliced black people, why is anyone looking to him to protect LGBT rights ? This country will never help minorities and oppressed peoples because their exploitation is the bread and butter for this country’s economy and cultural synthesis
That’s why the D party has been appeasing the “center” and “moderate right” over the “left” and the R party is appeasing the far right. No one will push left because that will hurt their bottom line.
F*** this system, join a local extrapolitical organization, arm yourself, read up, and get connected to allies. History is ugly and we are part of it. Don’t rely on the same system that oppresses you to save you
Why can’t I just do that while also voting for Biden to prevent trump who will be measurably worse
- americana 🍷May 23, 2024emocean
Why can’t I just do that while also voting for Biden to prevent trump who will be measurably worse
Once again I doubt that trump will be measurably worse considering just how bad bidens term has been for fabric of reality for American minorities and minorities overseas
And even then, you are still making the explicit judgement that Biden is somehow a solution/protection of your well-being, enough to ignore a GENOCIDE that is occurring. That is simply incorrect and inhumane
May 23, 2024·1 replyemoceanWhy can’t I just do that while also voting for Biden to prevent trump who will be measurably worse
Sort of on-topic - I was putting this together last night for a pro-Palestine friend who similarly asked me in good faith what the downside is voting for the lesser of two evils. Its long, not yet perfectly formatted, and pulls references from a few ppl but you're welcome to read it:
I understand why someone who views politics from a contemporary American lens would look at what’s going on in Palestine and think that all it takes to stop the genocide is convincing each member of congress to halt weapons transfers to Israel. However, if we concede that voting for a Democrat or Republican is the only concrete political position as it concerns elections in America, then we’re implying that our current political system can be reformed.
There is no way to reform a system this decrepit. There is no "voting your way out of this"-- there is no "doing activism your way out of this"-- there must be a revolution.
The self-satisfaction that comes from either voting or canvassing is ultimately meaningless because it's not the result of your political position that’s important, it’s how your position fulfills an entirely abstract criteria that’s important.
When we, the masses, attempt to take action, we are constantly urged to step back and let our political institutions take responsibility. It’s funny how, when “good” things happen, it’s because the masses did a good job of voting for the right people, but when “bad” things happen, it’s because the masses did a bad job of voting for the right people.
We often view our own decision to vote as the most “moral” thing to do, and that if we are voting, we’re participating in real politics. Conversely, many think that by denying the reality of these institutions, they’re participating in the act of abolition of real politics, but this stems from the same error - it doesn’t distinguish material reality from the institutions that mediate reality.
Voting keeps us constrained within the bourgeoisie framework, and if we want to genuinely increase the power of marginalized people, we need to move beyond the voting booth.
Ahead of an election, nothing terrifies any arm of our empire more than turnout numbers plummeting, especially knowing that people like us are actively rejecting the legitimacy of our rigged and corrupt voting system. It’s the most efficient contribution we can make as Americans to bring authority to third parties and movements beyond the corporate establishment. It’s how our government gauges how legitimate our political system is among the masses. Our government knows that our voice doesn’t matter, and that the agenda will more or less be the same, whether a republican or democrat is in office.
With this in mind, one of our most pressing ideological tasks is liberating ourselves from sentiments that exist within the confines of voting, ie: “making your voice heard” by voting for progressives or democratic socialists. I have no interest in being “heard”, I have an interest in dismantling the same subjective political institutions that want me to thank them for giving me a voice. The reality is that we never really get what we vote for. Every important issue involving the utilization of our tax dollars is made in guarded-off closet rooms inaccessible for public auditing.
Who actually consents to that process? Who actually consents to the evils of the American empire? Who consents to the deep state, the CIA, FBI, DHS, lobbyists, special interests, federal reserve control, or not being able to determine where our taxes go? If it’s the masses' fault that we don’t vote for the right people, is it the fault of the everyday American that our country–thanks to bipartisan efforts–is currently in 34 trillion dollars worth of debt?
Voting is a false way of solving problems because it’s a subjective perspective on behalf of institutions instead of a material one. It implicitly assumes that the system is too big to fail. The elite don’t view their institutions as part of reality, but rather the only reality. They don’t perceive an objective contradiction (oppressor vs. oppressed), they only perceive a contradiction between two abstract principles for what’s within the realm of practical intervention of establishment institutions.
A good example of the paradox between voting and people’s power is the 2019 Chicago Teachers Strike. The substantial benefits for teachers and students, such as a 16% salary increase, smaller class sizes, more school nurses, social workers, support staff etc., shouldn’t be attributed to voting for Lori Lightfoot. It should entirely be attributed to striking, and the widespread support it garnered from parents, students, and everyday Chicagoans. We should have the same mindset when galvanizing people’s support for Palestine at the TRUE sites of class struggle, such as workplaces, rental complexes, immigration detention centers, prisons, pipelines, warehouses, ports, transportation networks, etc.. If we limit ourselves to voting booths or just the streets, we’re sectioning ourselves off from being able to speak about Palestine and imperialism in a truly material way.
A point of important self-interrogation is that the reason for not voting should be attributed to establishments, not just “capitalism”. Many leftists and people who recently voted “uncommitted” made a personal decision based on the personal outcomes they’d like to see happen - outcomes that I am in support of. While abstaining is definitely a point of intrigue and a***ysis, it takes for granted what one perceives to be the problem in the first place, and the institutions one perceives as the vehicle for resolving them.
Even when you decide not to vote, it's a decision you have to make actively - because you don’t see American democracy itself as having its basis in a more fundamental, material reality with its own institutions. If you did, you’d perceive the scope of your own individual relation to politics as not exclusively defined by these institutions, but by a necessity drawn from a deeper sense of reality.
I don’t want to feel a sense to vote, or even to abstain, I want to implicitly recognize that the fact of being an American citizen in an American democracy does not exhaust my real and material relationship to politics in general. We shouldn’t want to “fix” society through voting, but rather overthrow the current institutions and replace them with a people’s power, proletarian dictatorship. The significance of voting isn’t the same as the official one we’ve come to know, which is to govern society…it’s about establishing a concrete relationship to actual political realities and the people. Has nothing to do with voting as an individual just because you want to see some policies enacted. If you really want to improve the bourgeois democratic political system, the fight against voter suppression and disenfranchisement, for example, should be more of a top priority instead.
What’s convenient for a left that sees beyond electoralism is that the majority of Americans, who don’t vote, already understand this, that there’s a deeper reality of politics and political affairs that extends entirely beyond the relationship that individual citizens have towards political institutions. They have a complete grasp of a political reality that is more fundamental than the one democratic institutions try to define for them.
Us everyday Americans are not the ones that are decisive for American elections. If Biden in 2024, for example, needed the American people to win the Democratic nomination, we would’ve already got someone to primary him, and win this year’s Democratic party nomination instead. Where is the inflection point where we grant ourselves permission to better leverage our positions and our red lines on issues, instead of fantasizing about future scenarios?
Decisive importance now, for us leftists, shouldn’t be about “voting”, but rather acquiring a better sense of reality, and a better sense of the objective and material necessity that compels you to identify with the causes that you do, because right now, we don’t have a deeper sense of material objectivity, but rather a purely objective stance about what’s right and what’s wrong.
We shouldn’t feel compelled to create meaningless hypotheticals about the lesser of two evils, because not even the Democrats do that. They hold up bills for coronavirus aid, they deny railroad workers sick days, they co-sign the slaughter of millions by giving its allies and proxy countries unlimited weapons, unlimited funding, and unequivocal support in every possible way.
How is giving people nothing and supplying a genocidal entity like Israel with unlimited resources “the lesser of two evils”? Also, how much more difficult is it really to build a movement for true material change under a Republican Party than it is a Democratic Party? Our most prominent periods for radicalization in the US came under Republican presidents. Movements for true material change, like Communist movements, are simply the movement of history.
There’s no way to “push things left” or “push things right”. The only thing you can do is create independent political power, which is done through proletarian politics. The common politics of working class conservatives in America have no real threat, because, to be truly revolutionary, you have to take a risk in creating a form of power that doesn’t already exist. You can’t just be ideological representatives for the power that already exists to protect their power and interest.
We must draw a red line harsher than just Palestine. If we don’t, we’ll just end up continuing to be submissive to whatever subjective authorities happen to prevail at the expense of our own deeper sense of material reality. Building our own political institutions is paramount, and having a people’s platform to usher in a true proletarian dictatorship in America.
sponge 🧽May 23, 2024fiveprestosSort of on-topic - I was putting this together last night for a pro-Palestine friend who similarly asked me in good faith what the downside is voting for the lesser of two evils. Its long, not yet perfectly formatted, and pulls references from a few ppl but you're welcome to read it:
I understand why someone who views politics from a contemporary American lens would look at what’s going on in Palestine and think that all it takes to stop the genocide is convincing each member of congress to halt weapons transfers to Israel. However, if we concede that voting for a Democrat or Republican is the only concrete political position as it concerns elections in America, then we’re implying that our current political system can be reformed.
There is no way to reform a system this decrepit. There is no "voting your way out of this"-- there is no "doing activism your way out of this"-- there must be a revolution.
The self-satisfaction that comes from either voting or canvassing is ultimately meaningless because it's not the result of your political position that’s important, it’s how your position fulfills an entirely abstract criteria that’s important.
When we, the masses, attempt to take action, we are constantly urged to step back and let our political institutions take responsibility. It’s funny how, when “good” things happen, it’s because the masses did a good job of voting for the right people, but when “bad” things happen, it’s because the masses did a bad job of voting for the right people.
We often view our own decision to vote as the most “moral” thing to do, and that if we are voting, we’re participating in real politics. Conversely, many think that by denying the reality of these institutions, they’re participating in the act of abolition of real politics, but this stems from the same error - it doesn’t distinguish material reality from the institutions that mediate reality.
Voting keeps us constrained within the bourgeoisie framework, and if we want to genuinely increase the power of marginalized people, we need to move beyond the voting booth.
Ahead of an election, nothing terrifies any arm of our empire more than turnout numbers plummeting, especially knowing that people like us are actively rejecting the legitimacy of our rigged and corrupt voting system. It’s the most efficient contribution we can make as Americans to bring authority to third parties and movements beyond the corporate establishment. It’s how our government gauges how legitimate our political system is among the masses. Our government knows that our voice doesn’t matter, and that the agenda will more or less be the same, whether a republican or democrat is in office.
With this in mind, one of our most pressing ideological tasks is liberating ourselves from sentiments that exist within the confines of voting, ie: “making your voice heard” by voting for progressives or democratic socialists. I have no interest in being “heard”, I have an interest in dismantling the same subjective political institutions that want me to thank them for giving me a voice. The reality is that we never really get what we vote for. Every important issue involving the utilization of our tax dollars is made in guarded-off closet rooms inaccessible for public auditing.
Who actually consents to that process? Who actually consents to the evils of the American empire? Who consents to the deep state, the CIA, FBI, DHS, lobbyists, special interests, federal reserve control, or not being able to determine where our taxes go? If it’s the masses' fault that we don’t vote for the right people, is it the fault of the everyday American that our country–thanks to bipartisan efforts–is currently in 34 trillion dollars worth of debt?
Voting is a false way of solving problems because it’s a subjective perspective on behalf of institutions instead of a material one. It implicitly assumes that the system is too big to fail. The elite don’t view their institutions as part of reality, but rather the only reality. They don’t perceive an objective contradiction (oppressor vs. oppressed), they only perceive a contradiction between two abstract principles for what’s within the realm of practical intervention of establishment institutions.
A good example of the paradox between voting and people’s power is the 2019 Chicago Teachers Strike. The substantial benefits for teachers and students, such as a 16% salary increase, smaller class sizes, more school nurses, social workers, support staff etc., shouldn’t be attributed to voting for Lori Lightfoot. It should entirely be attributed to striking, and the widespread support it garnered from parents, students, and everyday Chicagoans. We should have the same mindset when galvanizing people’s support for Palestine at the TRUE sites of class struggle, such as workplaces, rental complexes, immigration detention centers, prisons, pipelines, warehouses, ports, transportation networks, etc.. If we limit ourselves to voting booths or just the streets, we’re sectioning ourselves off from being able to speak about Palestine and imperialism in a truly material way.
A point of important self-interrogation is that the reason for not voting should be attributed to establishments, not just “capitalism”. Many leftists and people who recently voted “uncommitted” made a personal decision based on the personal outcomes they’d like to see happen - outcomes that I am in support of. While abstaining is definitely a point of intrigue and a***ysis, it takes for granted what one perceives to be the problem in the first place, and the institutions one perceives as the vehicle for resolving them.
Even when you decide not to vote, it's a decision you have to make actively - because you don’t see American democracy itself as having its basis in a more fundamental, material reality with its own institutions. If you did, you’d perceive the scope of your own individual relation to politics as not exclusively defined by these institutions, but by a necessity drawn from a deeper sense of reality.
I don’t want to feel a sense to vote, or even to abstain, I want to implicitly recognize that the fact of being an American citizen in an American democracy does not exhaust my real and material relationship to politics in general. We shouldn’t want to “fix” society through voting, but rather overthrow the current institutions and replace them with a people’s power, proletarian dictatorship. The significance of voting isn’t the same as the official one we’ve come to know, which is to govern society…it’s about establishing a concrete relationship to actual political realities and the people. Has nothing to do with voting as an individual just because you want to see some policies enacted. If you really want to improve the bourgeois democratic political system, the fight against voter suppression and disenfranchisement, for example, should be more of a top priority instead.
What’s convenient for a left that sees beyond electoralism is that the majority of Americans, who don’t vote, already understand this, that there’s a deeper reality of politics and political affairs that extends entirely beyond the relationship that individual citizens have towards political institutions. They have a complete grasp of a political reality that is more fundamental than the one democratic institutions try to define for them.
Us everyday Americans are not the ones that are decisive for American elections. If Biden in 2024, for example, needed the American people to win the Democratic nomination, we would’ve already got someone to primary him, and win this year’s Democratic party nomination instead. Where is the inflection point where we grant ourselves permission to better leverage our positions and our red lines on issues, instead of fantasizing about future scenarios?
Decisive importance now, for us leftists, shouldn’t be about “voting”, but rather acquiring a better sense of reality, and a better sense of the objective and material necessity that compels you to identify with the causes that you do, because right now, we don’t have a deeper sense of material objectivity, but rather a purely objective stance about what’s right and what’s wrong.
We shouldn’t feel compelled to create meaningless hypotheticals about the lesser of two evils, because not even the Democrats do that. They hold up bills for coronavirus aid, they deny railroad workers sick days, they co-sign the slaughter of millions by giving its allies and proxy countries unlimited weapons, unlimited funding, and unequivocal support in every possible way.
How is giving people nothing and supplying a genocidal entity like Israel with unlimited resources “the lesser of two evils”? Also, how much more difficult is it really to build a movement for true material change under a Republican Party than it is a Democratic Party? Our most prominent periods for radicalization in the US came under Republican presidents. Movements for true material change, like Communist movements, are simply the movement of history.
There’s no way to “push things left” or “push things right”. The only thing you can do is create independent political power, which is done through proletarian politics. The common politics of working class conservatives in America have no real threat, because, to be truly revolutionary, you have to take a risk in creating a form of power that doesn’t already exist. You can’t just be ideological representatives for the power that already exists to protect their power and interest.
We must draw a red line harsher than just Palestine. If we don’t, we’ll just end up continuing to be submissive to whatever subjective authorities happen to prevail at the expense of our own deeper sense of material reality. Building our own political institutions is paramount, and having a people’s platform to usher in a true proletarian dictatorship in America.
holy s*** this post is long af
May 24, 2024·4 repliesF***ing regarded commies trying to both sides the election man. Obviously both sides suck but if you actually think theres no domestic difference between trump and biden theres no reason to talk to you lol
- May 24, 2024Snowboy
palestinians are also scared of being exterminated by a nazi government but as long as americans get theirs first at others expense that's what really matters I spose
again y'all dont even see this s*** as racism and xenophobia, its just second nature to sumyall
"people care more about what happens to their country than others"
you guys can't be serious lol
- sponge 🧽May 24, 2024Mesaih
F***ing regarded commies trying to both sides the election man. Obviously both sides suck but if you actually think theres no domestic difference between trump and biden theres no reason to talk to you lol
tell em
- americana 🍷May 24, 2024·1 replyMesaih
F***ing regarded commies trying to both sides the election man. Obviously both sides suck but if you actually think theres no domestic difference between trump and biden theres no reason to talk to you lol
there is a difference but it is not substantial enough to hedge your bets on some sort of improvement in the long term. voting democrat will not change the path this country is going down, just how it goes down that path
- May 24, 2024·2 replies
Biden and the Democrats are everything they project Trump to be.
USA is falling apart under Biden. Biden is extremely more racist than Trump.
Stop being brainwashed.
If we have 4 more years of Biden, life as you know it will be over. This nigga f***ed up the country more than you could ever imagine.
May 24, 2024NowhereManBiden and the Democrats are everything they project Trump to be.
USA is falling apart under Biden. Biden is extremely more racist than Trump.
Stop being brainwashed.
If we have 4 more years of Biden, life as you know it will be over. This nigga f***ed up the country more than you could ever imagine.
Amen MAGA brother
- May 24, 2024Mesaih
F***ing regarded commies trying to both sides the election man. Obviously both sides suck but if you actually think theres no domestic difference between trump and biden theres no reason to talk to you lol
so brave
- sponge 🧽May 24, 2024americana
there is a difference but it is not substantial enough to hedge your bets on some sort of improvement in the long term. voting democrat will not change the path this country is going down, just how it goes down that path
May 24, 2024·1 replyTrump and Biden represent the same policies. Its just that Trump was more vocal about it, while Biden does it in silence and claims otherwise in the media.
It literally doesn't matter who wins this election.
- sponge 🧽May 24, 2024BnBallinToo
Trump and Biden represent the same policies. Its just that Trump was more vocal about it, while Biden does it in silence and claims otherwise in the media.
It literally doesn't matter who wins this election.
"Pick your poison" type beat but literally
May 24, 2024Don’t give a f***
