Apr 26, 2024
Botneysoon nothing matters anymore
Apr 26, 2024not gonna lie bro no matter what the f*** we do w AI, at the end of the day it's a person that has to press that enter key on the prompt. s*** is just a tool.
I think in the future we might look at AI art the same way we look at like plastic silverware. Yeah, a plastic fork is definitely a fork, and it works. They even make plastic forks that are quality enough to keep in your house and reuse. Plastic is newer, cheaper, and just as good at holding your food, but people still buy metal silverware. why is that? Because we like to own things that have been made by an actual person, and because metal is socially recognized as premium. If you only look at the cold hard stats, plastic silverware seems like it could make metal utensils obsolete. But when you consider the social and cultural context of that, you see how ridiculous of a proposition it is. Of course people will still buy metal silverware for their house, no matter what plastic options they have.
sure, there's a market for AI music, and that might take some jobs away from artists, but I don't think AI is going to come anywhere close to eliminating musicians as a whole. No matter how good someone gets at churning out AI music, actually writing music will still be a more impressive feat, and people will care more for the sole reason that a human made it.
- Apr 26, 2024
basically, AI music is inherently lamer than real music, which is why it's not a real threat. No, it's not good, but I don't think it's something work freaking out over either.
Apr 26, 2024·2 replies
shin thread jpegpeople like OP seem to frame their disinterest in creation or even understanding what would compel someone to train / make things themselves as 'enlightenment,' talking dismissively about actual artistry in the process. they look at genAI as some 'inevitable' next step in human expression and can't grasp why having a LLM mash together stolen works for them to brand theirs is antithetical to that. it's too much of a bother—too big of an ask—to learn how to do the thing the claim they want to do or even commission someone that did bc they dont respect the practice or the process. i mean OP said music is nothing but a product to be consumed by them. i truly believe the years and years of STEM being heavily pushed onto young students as the only worthwhile career path while the arts were being defunded or outright slandered as 'just hobbies' have something to do with this. at the end of the day, they would rather pay midjourney a sub for the fleeting high of seeing a generated piece or 10 done in a minute
I see the angle. Sort of.
I'm not convinced the use of Ai is inherently “un artsistic”. There are too many great examples from artists and art theorist that prove those arguments to be be wrong, in my opinion.
While I do agree that there is a loud minority of people that cheaply use Ai for social media content / nfts but on the other hand I don't think it's fair to say that all ai work and the use of it in ones artistic practice is bad / cheap or whatever.
We all know disingenuous work when we see it / hear it. If it has soul and ads to linnage of art and art making in a meaningful way why should it matter on how it was created and what tools where used in the process.
Apr 26, 2024ur not a musician and dont care about music like that so you probably will never understand
cant imagine you caring about music and thinking like this ngl
- Apr 26, 2024·1 reply
you can paint by numbers approach songwriting and write 3 songs a day in whatever genre you choose but actually making a body of work let alone a song that is meaningful to the artist and at least one other person requires more spiritual and emotional effort than you can imagine
forget the man hours, a song thats meaningful can take you 2 hours to write record and produce (thinking some of dean blunt tracks) but requires you to enter such a deeply vulnerable state that its hard to come out of
- Apr 26, 2024·2 repliesImportedOliveOil_
I see the angle. Sort of.
I'm not convinced the use of Ai is inherently “un artsistic”. There are too many great examples from artists and art theorist that prove those arguments to be be wrong, in my opinion.
While I do agree that there is a loud minority of people that cheaply use Ai for social media content / nfts but on the other hand I don't think it's fair to say that all ai work and the use of it in ones artistic practice is bad / cheap or whatever.
We all know disingenuous work when we see it / hear it. If it has soul and ads to linnage of art and art making in a meaningful way why should it matter on how it was created and what tools where used in the process.
https://dis.art/jon-rafman-ebrah-kdabri
as long as the LLMs are built off of the visual art, music, models, videos and photos of creatives that never had a say or an opportunity to opt in/out, it's an exploitative shortcut for those that want to "play artist" and not pay artists.
as for the site you linked, it reads like a guy conflating his role as an art client with the role of the artist. even his description of pre-2020 genAI depicts a process that required much more from its user than what he goes on to aggrandize further down:
"Each image generated needs a directive to initiate computation. These prompts involve a blend of intuition, imagination, and understanding of the AI model's behavior."
"Engineering a prompt is not just about providing a clear directive, but also phrasing or framing the prompt in a way that elicits a meaningful response from the AI."
"The artist anticipates how the model might interpret the prompt, and this often requires a deep familiarity with the model's quirks, tendencies, and potential outputs. With the rise of prompt writing, the artist-promptist, becomes akin to a conductor, guiding an orchestra of computational processes."
this is literally just commissioning an artist but the 'artist' here is the genAI so he feels confident to claim the result as his own
"AI actually broadens creative freedom, much like the way the printing press expanded and democratized literary expression during the Renaissance."
You still had to write the novel to have anything to print. chatGPT would do all the writing for you
"The unpredictable nature of AI image generation is not a limitation but a tool, producing results that even the promptist could not have conceived until they are generated."
this even shows how disconnected he is from the actual creation process and how little control he has over the result, no matter how 'familiar' he is with the LLM's quirks
"The promptist taps into a creative intuition that may lead to outputs beyond the reach of traditional, logical processes. They echo an ancient truth enshrined in sacred texts and philosophical treatises: words are foundational to creation. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The ancient Hebrew phrase "ebrah k'dabri," colloquially known as "abracadabra," translates to "I create like the word."
just lol
i'd post more but it's the same all the way down
Apr 26, 2024black hedi slimaneyou can paint by numbers approach songwriting and write 3 songs a day in whatever genre you choose but actually making a body of work let alone a song that is meaningful to the artist and at least one other person requires more spiritual and emotional effort than you can imagine
forget the man hours, a song thats meaningful can take you 2 hours to write record and produce (thinking some of dean blunt tracks) but requires you to enter such a deeply vulnerable state that its hard to come out of
hahahahahahahahhahaahaha
- Apr 26, 2024shin thread jpeg
people like OP seem to frame their disinterest in creation or even understanding what would compel someone to train / make things themselves as 'enlightenment,' talking dismissively about actual artistry in the process. they look at genAI as some 'inevitable' next step in human expression and can't grasp why having a LLM mash together stolen works for them to brand theirs is antithetical to that. it's too much of a bother—too big of an ask—to learn how to do the thing the claim they want to do or even commission someone that did bc they dont respect the practice or the process. i mean OP said music is nothing but a product to be consumed by them. i truly believe the years and years of STEM being heavily pushed onto young students as the only worthwhile career path while the arts were being defunded or outright slandered as 'just hobbies' have something to do with this. at the end of the day, they would rather pay midjourney a sub for the fleeting high of seeing a generated piece or 10 done in a minute
yaaaaa, a lot of this sort of thinking is sorta steeped in a more mechanistic, reductionist worldview that essentially strips out the subjective character and therefore the intrinsic value of art and creativity in itself, due to it not being measurable or something that can be quantified
so functionally there is no difference in between an AI writing a song and an actual human writing it because the creative process is seen as nothing more than a series of inputs and outputs that a machine is just copying and replicating
it’s basically just placing a premium on logic and reasoning to the point where the subject is completely wiped out, which is why people like OP don’t really grasp that there’s an irreducible je ne sais quoi (or ya know, sauce) to art in general that a machine cannot copy, although i’d argue really any sort of experience period
this sort of stuff is why there’s people out there that genuinely think AI can “become” conscious one day, but that’s a whole ‘nother conversation
- Apr 26, 2024·edited
this thread is funny though because OP is the direct product of the materialism and worship of technology and science that i was always crying about on here, nice to see people see the problem all of the sudden now
@slapcitybeyotch are we ever going to contend with the consequences of vulgar rationalism and Hot Topic “common-sense” naturalism? or are we gonna continue to play coy? 😏
- Apr 26, 2024
DaeHanI was about to say, isn’t this what’s already happening with “real” music aside from a very select few?
and people cry and moan about that too
just because the music industry churns out soulless music, doesn’t mean that soulless music is okay
- Apr 26, 2024
Is there a single thing right with AI music other than you getting to live your fantasy without consent from any of the related parties
OP, you should also look into deepfake p*** if you enjoy this
- Apr 26, 2024ImportedOliveOil_
I see the angle. Sort of.
I'm not convinced the use of Ai is inherently “un artsistic”. There are too many great examples from artists and art theorist that prove those arguments to be be wrong, in my opinion.
While I do agree that there is a loud minority of people that cheaply use Ai for social media content / nfts but on the other hand I don't think it's fair to say that all ai work and the use of it in ones artistic practice is bad / cheap or whatever.
We all know disingenuous work when we see it / hear it. If it has soul and ads to linnage of art and art making in a meaningful way why should it matter on how it was created and what tools where used in the process.
https://dis.art/jon-rafman-ebrah-kdabri
this is a coping mechanism
tell the dude behind the site to pick up a paint brush or a pencil, and actually learn to draw and create stuff
this entire page is akin to saying there’s some sort of technique and art form in Google searches
- Apr 26, 2024·1 replyshin thread jpeg
as long as the LLMs are built off of the visual art, music, models, videos and photos of creatives that never had a say or an opportunity to opt in/out, it's an exploitative shortcut for those that want to "play artist" and not pay artists.
as for the site you linked, it reads like a guy conflating his role as an art client with the role of the artist. even his description of pre-2020 genAI depicts a process that required much more from its user than what he goes on to aggrandize further down:
"Each image generated needs a directive to initiate computation. These prompts involve a blend of intuition, imagination, and understanding of the AI model's behavior."
"Engineering a prompt is not just about providing a clear directive, but also phrasing or framing the prompt in a way that elicits a meaningful response from the AI."
"The artist anticipates how the model might interpret the prompt, and this often requires a deep familiarity with the model's quirks, tendencies, and potential outputs. With the rise of prompt writing, the artist-promptist, becomes akin to a conductor, guiding an orchestra of computational processes."
this is literally just commissioning an artist but the 'artist' here is the genAI so he feels confident to claim the result as his own
"AI actually broadens creative freedom, much like the way the printing press expanded and democratized literary expression during the Renaissance."
You still had to write the novel to have anything to print. chatGPT would do all the writing for you
"The unpredictable nature of AI image generation is not a limitation but a tool, producing results that even the promptist could not have conceived until they are generated."
this even shows how disconnected he is from the actual creation process and how little control he has over the result, no matter how 'familiar' he is with the LLM's quirks
"The promptist taps into a creative intuition that may lead to outputs beyond the reach of traditional, logical processes. They echo an ancient truth enshrined in sacred texts and philosophical treatises: words are foundational to creation. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The ancient Hebrew phrase "ebrah k'dabri," colloquially known as "abracadabra," translates to "I create like the word."
just lol
i'd post more but it's the same all the way down
buddy on there compared shaking the AI snow globe to photography killing the need for painting family portraits
god come take me now please
- Apr 26, 2024X7JQ9L2MF4A8Z
buddy on there compared shaking the AI snow globe to photography killing the need for painting family portraits
god come take me now please
whole damn page was a laugh lol the guy obviously likes writing so he should just pursue that instead being embarrassingly proud of prompting
- Apr 26, 2024·1 replyshin thread jpeg
as long as the LLMs are built off of the visual art, music, models, videos and photos of creatives that never had a say or an opportunity to opt in/out, it's an exploitative shortcut for those that want to "play artist" and not pay artists.
as for the site you linked, it reads like a guy conflating his role as an art client with the role of the artist. even his description of pre-2020 genAI depicts a process that required much more from its user than what he goes on to aggrandize further down:
"Each image generated needs a directive to initiate computation. These prompts involve a blend of intuition, imagination, and understanding of the AI model's behavior."
"Engineering a prompt is not just about providing a clear directive, but also phrasing or framing the prompt in a way that elicits a meaningful response from the AI."
"The artist anticipates how the model might interpret the prompt, and this often requires a deep familiarity with the model's quirks, tendencies, and potential outputs. With the rise of prompt writing, the artist-promptist, becomes akin to a conductor, guiding an orchestra of computational processes."
this is literally just commissioning an artist but the 'artist' here is the genAI so he feels confident to claim the result as his own
"AI actually broadens creative freedom, much like the way the printing press expanded and democratized literary expression during the Renaissance."
You still had to write the novel to have anything to print. chatGPT would do all the writing for you
"The unpredictable nature of AI image generation is not a limitation but a tool, producing results that even the promptist could not have conceived until they are generated."
this even shows how disconnected he is from the actual creation process and how little control he has over the result, no matter how 'familiar' he is with the LLM's quirks
"The promptist taps into a creative intuition that may lead to outputs beyond the reach of traditional, logical processes. They echo an ancient truth enshrined in sacred texts and philosophical treatises: words are foundational to creation. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The ancient Hebrew phrase "ebrah k'dabri," colloquially known as "abracadabra," translates to "I create like the word."
just lol
i'd post more but it's the same all the way down
Are you familiar with Rafman work?
- Apr 26, 2024·1 replyImportedOliveOil_
Are you familiar with Rafman work?
no, just the site that was linked
- Apr 26, 2024·1 replyshin thread jpeg
no, just the site that was linked
You should definitely check him out. Old stuff and new stuff.
I also really like what Holly Herndon is doing with Ai and how she utalizes it and what she's trying to do to help make it a better climate for it.
- Apr 26, 2024ImportedOliveOil_
You should definitely check him out. Old stuff and new stuff.
I also really like what Holly Herndon is doing with Ai and how she utalizes it and what she's trying to do to help make it a better climate for it.
i'm at least aware of Holly Herndon. I liked her 2015 album