I know so part of what I am saying is fine do the vaccine mandate but make clear that currently a booster will needed every 6 months until they find a life time solution. Because currently many think their 2 shots are good enough both to keep their job and stay alive. They aren't thinking they will need continuous shots and if they feel that information changes then this cycle will never end of people not trusting

cool will come back to this 3-4 months after this mandate. Bring new excuses that time and less name calling

israels daily deaths are <100 while the us is averaging thousands of deaths per day

obviously theyre doing something right

I mean I hope this works I am just simply saying the announcement of "we are getting vaccinated every 6 months until we find an end solution" should kind of be made this year so everyone can react get over it and we keep it moving. The more you delay that official announcement the worse the outcry is

There is literally no end goal in sight idk how people can blame others for living their life at this point

Batshit that we don't already do this for all vaccines tbh

Facts, the communication at the federal level about the nuance of this has been so terrible. Two admins in a row absolutely terrified to explain that this vaccine works the exact same way all vaccines do.

I get why they would drag their feet when it was hard enough to get people to take one shot in the first place, but transparency has been such an underused tool through this pandemic and we're reaping the consequences of anti-vax rhetoric going mainstream to fill the vacuum.

deadass mfs are politicizing this s*** and taking sides but neither side has a plan or a end goal and sight

That's all I am saying I am not antivax. I am there needs to be clear transparency on future that doesn't change every week. If we got to get shots every 6 months for the rest of our lives or until data makes significant changes and lowers hospital rates then the time to break that news is NOW not f***ing around. Not "travel as normal you dont need a vaccine just a test 3 days before" not " certain restaurants require test and vaccine and others its whatever" . Like get on the same page and lets make some progress

I wasn't gonna respond to dude's posts but he really got whittled down to responding with "pls less name calling" after calling me "dumb as f***" first lol

I agree with you that both have failed, but the Trump adminstration castrated themselves with the rhetoric they used out the gate about covid and the various dangers it presented, and as seen in Cullman, you can't walk back the hostility those early weeks and months created even if you were the one who created it (much less Biden)

I really don't know what the answer is. They came out very conservative and hand wringing in the early part of 2021. Only about half the country got vaccinated. They come out balls to the walls, and dudes call it a "federal overreach". My only suggestion would've been going even harder on social media disinformation during the formative part of the pandemic

Oh absolutely - not absolving the Trump admin of how much damage they caused directly because of the CiC having a bruised ego. What frustrates me most about the Biden admin though, is the half-measures taken far too late. No matter what he did he would be called an authoritarian; Trump primped the public for that. So why not, as @ShintaroKago said, take the opportunity to swallow the bitter pill and be transparent about the road to come?

We all know the data is changing constantly, but it looks like this is going to be endemic - so say that. mRNA is going to need boosters just as every vaccine in history has - so say that. It was fueled by Trump, yes, but disinformation has thrived in the platitudes of the Biden admin so far.

I agree with you on cracking down on social media disinformation, but I hesitate to believe that that would've even helped tbh. We set a dangerous precedent by banning Trump from Twitter as a sitting President (yes - he absolutely deserved it, but the fact that he pushed it to that point is dangerous in itself) and from here on out, I genuinely don't know that we'll ever get a handle on social media disinformation when half the public cries "CENSORSHIP!" the minute some OANN quack's YouTube video about ivermectin gets taken down.

I honestly feel like the post-Trump era of bad faith discourse is the biggest reason we've failed in America to get this virus under control - and, by proxy, failed the rest of the world in helping defeat it.

Assuming I have reasonably required time and resources: I could go on Twitter today, post a video of me outside of a hospital claiming that I was an "eyewitness" to nurses discussing how to make sure conservatives don't get ivermectin treatment (could even get a friend to pose as a front desk person or something to corroborate but doubt that'd be needed), pay Tim Pool or whatever other morally bankrupt influencer and get them to retweet it, and just like that: there would be thousands of people who would latch onto it as a worldview-confirming piece of evidence in the gish gallop and yet another reason to "do your own research". The hospital itself could post a video from its security camera proving me faking it and people would still argue that it was either doctored or a coverup (see: Project Veritas) because their victim complex is that ingrained at this point.

How do you combat disinformation, much less secure public consensus, when we just had 4 years of both conservative victimization being stoked at every term and an example of a POTUS who gleefully acts in bad faith backing them? Bad faith, non-falsifiable conspiracy theories are part of the mainstream discourse now - not just political discourse, but what your neighbors will talk about. And lo and behold, it's profitable now for the people that influence that part of the conversation to peddle anti-scientific arguments in the middle of a public health crisis - and it's WORKING. That's f***ing terrifying.

Cracking down on "misinformation" has been counter productive because I use misinformation in quotes to say they have unfortunately cracked down or called anyone crazy who questions covid testing numbers yet later admitting that at times the numbers for positive test were skewed.

S*** even last year when I was taking this more serious than everyone I know in April I got tested because I was active volunteering and interacting with others. We went from a test where they poke back of both nostrils and brains and throat to get accurate reading to mouth swab, at home test with sometimes false positives or mixed results. Antigen test. All those different things. As silly as it sounds people got too caught up with making Fauci an mascot for Covid which made him an easy person to attack or question credibility of. Rather than a collection of doctors from around the usa or world that people can trust or relate to.

Many don't even understand what mRNA is (shout out genetics teachers lol) or recognize that it doesnt permanently change their DNA and make them a mutant. Although of course its fun to joke at their expense the problem has partially become all the jokes and making others feel dumb rather than helping them to believe in what you are doing

Things they have changed up on

1. you dont need mask
2. you need a mask
3. you need 2 mask
4. you need vaccine and no mask
5. best shot is Pfizer
6. Johnson and Johnson adverse affects
7. Pfizer doesnt protect against Delta variant
8. Johnson and Johnson protects against Delta and you may not need a booster
9. We incorrectly counted covid deaths even if they died of something else
10. stopping testing of people if they have the vaccine(when you should be using that data whether they are asymptomatic or not to help )
11. Making Contact tracing sound scary to people that fear government monitoring

like the list goes on and on then people are like "why do people not trust the government and 'doctors'"

because basically there is confirmation bias on both sides. We are watching people cheer on people dying of covid because they are unvaccinated. Which is just sad in itself and the unvaccinated cheering on people getting side effects. With no end in sight

lol because I mean look at the "Kanye f***ing jeffree star" all it takes is a joke and a little sauce on anything on the internet then suddenly 75,000 retweets and how many question it a long the way. Inclusion is a hell of a d***. Suddenly we are all making fun of a lady with gorilla glue in her hair that we have never met and discussing her rather than the child that got drone striked. The countless number of people on ventilators and hospitals filling up. We get so engrossed in what if and "If I was in their position I would do this". But we are only in our position we only have control over ourselves

the same applies to this vaccination debate. Of course ideally everyone should get vaccinated and magically the pandemic would end but you have to play the mind exercise of why that isn't happening after the horrors of the last year to understand why it isnt happening and won't. there is inevitably from the moment you do a donut give away, alcohol giveaway, lottery, free concert tickets to get a vaccine

the more free things you give the less they trust you

Yup, with you on all counts. It’s just sad to think that this all could have at least been improved with more honest and coherent messaging, but it’s human and capitalist nature to scramble to hide your f*** ups and try to convince everyone it’s all good so the economy doesn’t suffer.

Honest to god it’s just depressing these days. I’ve got family that wouldn’t come to my aunt’s funeral because she died of covid and they’re convinced it’s a hoax. Their own sister. Like you said, inclusion is a hell of a d*** and I can understand why convincing yourself that there’s some grand scheme behind all this that you’re privy to is comforting; it’s why religion is what it is. It’s just sad to see us all lose our minds collectively because reality is just too f***ed up to accept on its face.

lol I said you were dumb as f*** because I posted a clear article about vaccination rates and you said "this is sentiment vs facts" after you continued to just call people questioning it d***head culture. I was wrong to call you dumb as f***,but this isnt simply sentiment vs facts. I am not antivax while at the same time someone who I care for deeply nearly died from an adverse affects of the vaccine. My grandma doesnt want to get vaccinated and obviously she is at risk population so it becomes how do I convince my grandma if I myself am like damn someone I know almost died trying to protect themselves and they never possibly showed symptoms. If that person I love died I wouldnt be able to take any legal action. I would be able to do anything I would just have to cope with the fact that someone died trying to protect themselves

There are complex family stories behind all this that aren't getting told. Inclusion is a hell of a d***. They don't want the sad stories. They don't understand and likely never will. Especially when you see vaccine companies stocks thriving and USA like "lets buy that patent and we rather throw away unused vaccines than give to other nations"

Idk, I just constantly feel like "what do people want"?

Trump shuts the f*** up and leaves the pressers to the medical professionals and people say he just disappeared. Biden never really himself spoke much unless it was grand updates, and delegated it to similar parts of his cabinet as Trump. People wanted him to talk more

From the jump, Fauci has presented it as a constantly moving situation, and yet...that just seems lost on people. I personally believe that folks have applied the inherent human desire of consistency anytime we've gotten deep into a "wave". If it's lockdowns, people want an end or to stay there (depending on their belief), not accepting that it was never presented as a persistent thing. The same with relaxing and unrelaxing mandates. The conditional always has been "what the science is currently showing us" behind those

I just think humans are inherently rigid and no amount of chit chat is going to unfurl that knot. Those who are willing to be flexible don't seem to have the same concerns as the average "I want this to be over now" type, not to say it hasn't been equally taxing on all

And that goes back to what I said earlier about what we weigh as people. Some folks weigh things that're closer to them more than they weigh the whole. Some folks lean into that more than others. That is a quandary that is tough, I'm not debating that. But the numbers do overwhelmingly say that you shouldn't die from the vaccine, and they also paint that picture for averse effects, obviously a little bit higher than deaths

My whole sentiment stance was about your Israel point primarily, but also sentiment is important in trying to converse with vaccine-hesitant people. There just needs to be a separation behind that difficult convo you had with your gma or I have had with all of my immediate family about themselves getting vaccinated and what the government does with mandates

If personal feeling came towards decisions, the bubonic plague would've killed hundreds of thousands more directly and even more indirectly. Society as a whole isn't qualified to make the best decision for what's the best good for us all with respect to this field, it's just too difficult a topic that allows for too much emotion

And in saying that, it also applies to the vaccinated people. Some vaccinated people (SOME) have been a bit too brash and not quite nuanced about the topic either. Society needs to let the individuals we voted for as the decision makers to do their job

You not wrong but what many are missing from the past 2 years is that many are ready to die .

Like all love to you and I came off wrong . I think this cycle of polarization from Trump to covid to arguing that Black Lives Matter and cycles of all that as well as the lies behind it has made a society who has accepted death