Skinn Foley

1y

Amongst other aspects of simulacrum theory, Baudrillard proposed that "simulation" is created in capitalist societies to, using images (simulation theory being largely built from the foundation of Debord's "spectacle" theory), effectively "cover up" for the absence of something.

In the context of people's perception of "hip hop fans" vs "Death Grips fans", the absence in both, in terms of who is putting money behind the merch and going to shows in the largest concentrations, is black people lol. But because the spectacle needs the public to believe that hip hop is still economically rooted in "black culture" to give it some sort of commercial and cultural authenticity, when the rigid binary of "this is what black people listen to" vs "this is not what black people listen to", an entirely imagined stereotype, is broken, a lot of people have to resort to the "logic" that fans of X genre have to either be "pretentious" or "white", because DG aren't conventional hip hop and break down stereotypes and preconceptions of what black art can be, who it can appeal to, and how white people can help in the creative process of black art and art forms

In essence, these folks who buy into this latest simulacrum believe that "Death Grips are for white people" because the image of what they think hip hop as a commercial entity is doesn't match to what Death Grips' represent aesthetically, artistically, and even as a social movement. The charade of it all is that this simulacrum is meant to cover up for the fact that, whether it's Death Grips, Future, or Kendrick Lamar, there is a huge absence of working class black people who are economically participating and even demographically represented in their fanbases lol. It's mostly suburban white kids, because suburban whites have the strongest purchasing power relative to their percentage of the population, in a white supremacist country. It's all an illusion thinking that any commercially successful rap act has a majority-black, working class, "non-weird" audience. Most rap consumers of any kind of rap music are suburban white people

Skinn Foley

1y

Amongst other aspects of simulacrum theory, Baudrillard proposed that "simulation" is created in capitalist societies to, using images (simulation theory being largely built from the foundation of Debord's "spectacle" theory), effectively "cover up" for the absence of something.

In the context of people's perception of "hip hop fans" vs "Death Grips fans", the absence in both, in terms of who is putting money behind the merch and going to shows in the largest concentrations, is black people lol. But because the spectacle needs the public to believe that hip hop is still economically rooted in "black culture" to give it some sort of commercial and cultural authenticity, when the rigid binary of "this is what black people listen to" vs "this is not what black people listen to", an entirely imagined stereotype, is broken, a lot of people have to resort to the "logic" that fans of X genre have to either be "pretentious" or "white", because DG aren't conventional hip hop and break down stereotypes and preconceptions of what black art can be, who it can appeal to, and how white people can help in the creative process of black art and art forms

In essence, these folks who buy into this latest simulacrum believe that "Death Grips are for white people" because the image of what they think hip hop as a commercial entity is doesn't match to what Death Grips' represent aesthetically, artistically, and even as a social movement. The charade of it all is that this simulacrum is meant to cover up for the fact that, whether it's Death Grips, Future, or Kendrick Lamar, there is a huge absence of working class black people who are economically participating and even demographically represented in their fanbases lol. It's mostly suburban white kids, because suburban whites have the strongest purchasing power relative to their percentage of the population, in a white supremacist country. It's all an illusion thinking that any commercially successful rap act has a majority-black, working class, "non-weird" audience. Most rap consumers of any kind of rap music are suburban white people

Free YoungBoy

1y

Bro it’s just the truth that some artists simply appeal more to Black American listeners than others. There’s nothing wrong with that. It has nothing to do with pushing boundaries on what black art can be either lol. Like yeah most fans at most rap shows are going to be majority white because the US is a primarily white country. But that doesn’t mean that someone like Rod Wave let’s say doesn’t have a core fanbase of black listeners.

And honestly the point about black Americans not dictating where hip hop goes is flat out wrong. Like when artists first start popping off it’s usually a primarily black audience that blows them up and then mainstream America catches on later.

I do think it’s corny when people use that to s*** on artists because it doesn’t matter what race their fans are.

Skinn Foley

1y

Amongst other aspects of simulacrum theory, Baudrillard proposed that "simulation" is created in capitalist societies to, using images (simulation theory being largely built from the foundation of Debord's "spectacle" theory), effectively "cover up" for the absence of something.

In the context of people's perception of "hip hop fans" vs "Death Grips fans", the absence in both, in terms of who is putting money behind the merch and going to shows in the largest concentrations, is black people lol. But because the spectacle needs the public to believe that hip hop is still economically rooted in "black culture" to give it some sort of commercial and cultural authenticity, when the rigid binary of "this is what black people listen to" vs "this is not what black people listen to", an entirely imagined stereotype, is broken, a lot of people have to resort to the "logic" that fans of X genre have to either be "pretentious" or "white", because DG aren't conventional hip hop and break down stereotypes and preconceptions of what black art can be, who it can appeal to, and how white people can help in the creative process of black art and art forms

In essence, these folks who buy into this latest simulacrum believe that "Death Grips are for white people" because the image of what they think hip hop as a commercial entity is doesn't match to what Death Grips' represent aesthetically, artistically, and even as a social movement. The charade of it all is that this simulacrum is meant to cover up for the fact that, whether it's Death Grips, Future, or Kendrick Lamar, there is a huge absence of working class black people who are economically participating and even demographically represented in their fanbases lol. It's mostly suburban white kids, because suburban whites have the strongest purchasing power relative to their percentage of the population, in a white supremacist country. It's all an illusion thinking that any commercially successful rap act has a majority-black, working class, "non-weird" audience. Most rap consumers of any kind of rap music are suburban white people

X7JQ9L2MF4A8Z

1y

https://ktt2.com/why-does-experimental-music-artists-get-dismissed-as-white-people-32560455

“when the rigid binary of "this is what black people listen to" vs "this is not what black people listen to", an entirely imagined stereotype, is broken, a lot of people have to resort to the "logic" that fans of X genre have to either be "pretentious" or "white", because DG aren't conventional hip hop and break down stereotypes and preconceptions of what black art can be, who it can appeal to, and how white people can help in the creative process of black art and art forms“

brilliant f***ing post bro, you articulated what i was trying to get at in the thread i linked above when i was discussing it, i had started Simulacra and Simulation awhile back because it was source material for The Matrix (one of my favorite movies ever, and probably gave me my interest in philosophy period) but i was struggling to understand that s*** so i had dropped it

it’s a lot more clearer the way you put it

vagabonds

1y

damn this post should be stickied

X7JQ9L2MF4A8Z

1y

you do realize perpetuating this black-white music dichotomy is a form of coonery on your end right?

you’re literally placing any sort of experimental/abstract music in the art sphere in a place where apparently white people can understand and enjoy it (aka, certain IQ, or whatever) while black people can only understand and enjoy less experimental/abstract (if not outright) subversive forms of music?

you do realize these tastes are moreso programmed into people through marketing, promotion and labels, versus it somehow being some sort of thing intrinsic racially, that allows either race to enjoy these forms of music?

Free YoungBoy

1y

Bro it’s just the truth that some artists simply appeal more to Black American listeners than others. There’s nothing wrong with that. It has nothing to do with pushing boundaries on what black art can be either lol. Like yeah most fans at most rap shows are going to be majority white because the US is a primarily white country. But that doesn’t mean that someone like Rod Wave let’s say doesn’t have a core fanbase of black listeners.

And honestly the point about black Americans not dictating where hip hop goes is flat out wrong. Like when artists first start popping off it’s usually a primarily black audience that blows them up and then mainstream America catches on later.

I do think it’s corny when people use that to s*** on artists because it doesn’t matter what race their fans are.

X7JQ9L2MF4A8Z

1y

you do realize perpetuating this black-white music dichotomy is a form of coonery on your end right?

you’re literally placing any sort of experimental/abstract music in the art sphere in a place where apparently white people can understand and enjoy it (aka, certain IQ, or whatever) while black people can only understand and enjoy less experimental/abstract (if not outright) subversive forms of music?

you do realize these tastes are moreso programmed into people through marketing, promotion and labels, versus it somehow being some sort of thing intrinsic racially, that allows either race to enjoy these forms of music?

Skinn Foley

1y

Bro it’s just the truth that some artists simply appeal more to Black American listeners than others.

Nobody, myself included, is disputing this

It has nothing to do with pushing boundaries on what black art can be either lol.

White supremacy has a vested interest in limiting the perception of black culture/people/history/etc, to its most base elements, so that it is always perceived as being subordinate/second rate/incapable of survival, without white support/civilization

But that doesn’t mean that someone like Rod Wave let’s say doesn’t have a core fanbase of black listeners.

He does, but the majority of consumers of Rod Wave's music are white people, because he is a mainstream American artist, and mainstream America=white people

And honestly the point about black Americans not dictating where hip hop goes is flat out wrong. Like when artists first start popping off it’s usually a primarily black audience that blows them up and then mainstream America catches on later.

I didn't say anything about black people dictating the culture. I'm talking about the economic control over the culture, which is absolutely not in black peoples hands lol. It's in the hands of a few highly successful black people who are nonetheless succeeding in a system built by and for white people at the expense of non-whites, most notably, black and native american people. Rappers themselves have been pissed about this since the late 80s lol, part of the reason why N.W.A. broke up

Amir Karim

1y

Is death grips fan base just 4chan?

Free YoungBoy

1y

“White supremacy has a vested interest in limiting the perception of black culture/people/history/etc,”

They don’t do it knowingly but that’s exactly what people like fantano feed into when they s*** on artists that ACTUALLY appeal to the average black American listener. They view black artists as lesser unless they check the boxes that they look for when they’re listening to their rock and indie acts.

JeffersonSteelflex

1y

Yall spittin in this thread. shout out to @simulacrum dropping them mathematics.

This site used to be so progressive with putting people on to all kinds of music. Now there’s only one form of hip hop that gets championed over everything else and I f***ing hate that.

Free YoungBoy

1y

Nigga just yapping tbh. Like this s*** sounds cute but it’s just cope. Y’all are just hurt users called your favorite alternative darlings white people music

JeffersonSteelflex

1y

Yall spittin in this thread. shout out to @simulacrum dropping them mathematics.

This site used to be so progressive with putting people on to all kinds of music. Now there’s only one form of hip hop that gets championed over everything else and I f***ing hate that.

Skinn Foley

1y

The rightward shift in the United States coupled with the ongoing gentrification of alternative hip hop have alienated a lot of people from a lot of different kinds of hip hop

JeffersonSteelflex

1y

Ngl bro, you sound hurt lmao you’re automatically on the defense without any type of credible rebuttal. If you didn’t know that majority of consumers of popular hip hop are White people then idk what to tell you or maybe you’re young