Elric

11mo

Yeah it reminded me of Stalin's anecdote about bonding with Churchill over their hatred of the goddamn liberals it was interesting for sure but the context was kinda "Stalin Owns Libs" because you guys had gone from calling me a fascist to a liberal by that point.

I was more looking for it in-depth perspectives on history than breakdowns on socialist political theory and stuff.

afterimage

11mo

Imperial Japan was not lowkey waiting for a communist country to make an alliance with

It specifically joined the Anti-Comitern pact to counter communism worldwide lol

again, the Soviets would have socialized everything in Japan and put the Japanese communists in power who were getting repressed at the time. There is no way no one in power preferred that to America’s option

Snowboy

11mo

well understanding the political thought of the comintern-era CPSU is necessary to understanding wwii since war is a physical extension of politics. but I get what youre saying, the docu-series is more what youre looking for.

Elric

11mo

Yeah it reminded me of Stalin's anecdote about bonding with Churchill over their hatred of the goddamn liberals it was interesting for sure but the context was kinda "Stalin Owns Libs" because you guys had gone from calling me a fascist to a liberal by that point.

I was more looking for it in-depth perspectives on history than breakdowns on socialist political theory and stuff.

Elric

11mo

I don't mean letting the Soviets turn Japan into a satellite but;

"While publicly stating their intent to fight on to the bitter end, Japan's leaders were privately making entreaties to the publicly neutral Soviet Union to mediate peace on terms more favorable to the Japanese. While maintaining a sufficient level of diplomatic engagement with the Japanese to give them the impression they might be willing to mediate, the Soviets were covertly preparing to attack"

Elric

11mo

I don't mean letting the Soviets turn Japan into a satellite but;

"While publicly stating their intent to fight on to the bitter end, Japan's leaders were privately making entreaties to the publicly neutral Soviet Union to mediate peace on terms more favorable to the Japanese. While maintaining a sufficient level of diplomatic engagement with the Japanese to give them the impression they might be willing to mediate, the Soviets were covertly preparing to attack"

Snowboy

11mo

well yeah, the japanese were willing to sue for peace. the red army never had plans on invading mainland japan because it wouldn't have been necessary. its not really an "alliance" though.

afterimage

11mo

I’m not arguing the necessity of the purges but you blame Stalin for the deaths of civilians when it was the Soviet Leadership that prevented the Nazis from storming Leningrad & Moscow?

The SU was fighting a war of extermination on their homeland, their was nowhere to “run” to. Both the civilians and military understood that the Nazis were their to make them into slaves and build a eastern German settlement. The Nazis were absolutely brutal in purposely targeting civilians in masse. If it wasn’t for the combined effort of the Red Army, who had full support and was working with the civilian population to repeal the invaders. It was total war.

Blaming the Soviets instead of the actual Nazis for invading as to why their was so many causalities is….

The Soviets never invaded Japan main islands, they invaded Manchuria and other Japanese occupied territories in Asia. As agreed by the Soviets once the Eastern front was finished.

Had the Soviets invaded Japan homeland they would have overthrown the Emperor and socialized all the industries. Instead they got to make a deal with the West where the Emperor stayed and most of the Zaibatsu kept most their wealth and transitioned into modern capitalist monopolies

The Soviet Union was in no position or desire to “invade” all of Europe after or before WW2. The Soviets agreed to march into Poland but they were reclaiming territory lost from the 1917 war when they were too weak to hold on to it. The Nazis were there to just set up a fascist government to kill Jews.

They were in devastated from the war and didn’t have the capacity or will from the population to even continue fighting. They were just trying to eradicate the Nazis

Yes Japan was trying to establish a settler colony in Asia.

China had its own internal contradictions as to why Japan had overpowered it. But the main fact is just that Japan had industrialized faster and was a more advanced capitalist economy than China at the time.

Citing Mao alone is weird, the CPC was one faction among many fighting for control of China, the “embroiled in a civil war” makes me think you didn’t understand that there was many united fronts made between CPC, Kuimintang and local Warlords to team up and repel Japanese invaders. I don’t get what you are saying here tbh, it was a combined factors that led to Japan losing. The CPC won the civil war as well lol

afterimage

11mo

they did but it was cancelled

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Soviet_invasion_of_Hokkaido

slime wrld

11mo

my message is to those nationalist in america who can’t separate their communities they live in america vs the actions our country takes that don’t make us any better than the empire in star wars

afterimage

11mo

peace treaty =\ alliance

Big Tobacco

11mo

This one obviously about the beginning of the war, not the end, but I highly recommend 1939 by Michael Carley. It is a very detailed account of the diplomatic relations between France, UK and USSR leading up to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and the start of the war. It cites a lot of declassified diplomatic cables and the journal entries of those involved. While again not exactly what you may be looking for, I think it provides useful background for understanding each country’s attitudes and outlooks on one another that helps inform the course of later events

WRU

11mo

You’re dumb as bricks then

Snowboy

11mo

I dont doubt youve listened to some japanese fascist self-orientalize his people but its not the truth, the entire paradigm is obviously racist and defending the atomic bombings in any fashion is disgusting.

you have like a pop culture conception of wwii. stalin was not "a paranoid a******" and without the cpsu purges of the early 1930s the nazis could've easily built a fifth column within the ussr. like its not hard to learn basic facts about the eastern front, even that Burt Lancaster documentary goes into the nuance of stalin and zhukov's war strategy. since youre asking for sources you might as well start there.

OHMNI

11mo

No. Modern day American imperialism would in many ways make Hitler proud. Hyper Nationalism running rampant is something he would just be jealous of. America having bases world wide and acting as a super power while vetoing anyone that tries to hold them accountable is all things he would love if he was doing.

Windmaster

11mo

a lot of these conflicts were already f***ed before america joined in, youre making it sound like everything was sweet then america just f***ed it up, like yes a lot of the actions america took escalated conflicts but its not like we started the s***. u literally cited us NOT doing something for armenia as a flaw in foreign policy but this whole time you are saying we are doing too much, should we just stay out of conflicts or intervene make up ya mind

Lou

11mo

If you don’t know what you’re talking about, like you already admitted, why keep talking about it