krishna bound

4y

Are we gonna act like the issue is individual choice and we should be blaming the people who have a hamburger once a week or can we admit that these studies are massive copes attempting to re-direct responsibility away from the massive corporations doing unstable and unsustainable factory farming and pumping chemicals into the environment that regardless of consumer habits they're not gonna stop doing anyway your habits have no effect on these corporations (and governments), they will continue to destroy the environment regardless of how sturdy and moral your habits are. even the introduction of popular health trends in dieting has done nothing to influence corporations beyond them slapping a new coat of propaganda on their goods and you are delusional if you think consumers will have any form of remote influence on slowing this down

plants

4y

if nobody eats beef then beef will no longer be supplied idk if you are familiar with how that works. ofc it's not gonna happen quickly, nobody is saying that tho

i agree obviously large systemic changes need to happen but how do you suggest we make those happen?

also: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world

and btw dairy companies literally going out of business due to the public shifting away from their products. you can't just ignore the basic premise of supply and demand and how woven it is into this capitalist hellscape

plants

4y

Just replace it with some whole foods. I pretty much only eat wfpb and get 120g+ protein a day. I've gained 20lbs this year. Gotta show people how easy it is to thrive on these plants

krishna bound

4y

what do you think is easier? having nobody on the planet eat beef or stopping an entity from its practices? Do you truly think the burden is on the population here? Beef consumption has barely changed worldwide (relatively) for over a century, if you think the fault is on consumers, you're completely delusional. Even in this magical perfect world of beef & dairy consumption being completely eliminated, what do you think will happen? Companies will just become 100% eco-friendly, because mass farming of plants and natural materials has never ruined the environment either right?? The guy down the block eating a hamburger once or twice a week has no effect on the environment and any a***yst trying to claim he does is a massive shill for corporations willingly or otherwise. corporations will always be the primary entity causing these issues and there will never be any other solution than them ending

krishna bound

4y

i hope nothing you eat has any form of palm or rapeseed oil in it because if it does you are contributing even worse to environmental destruction than anyone eating meat. the environmental effect of these oils in food - ESPECIALLY HEALTH FOOD AND SUPPOSED "ECO-FRIENDLY" PRODUCTS - has done just as much if not more to destroy entire environments than anyone eating beef or hormone'd up franken-chickens. There is no "safe" "ethical" method here. Stop blaming people, we all know who's really at fault and who really needs to change

Y0rn

4y

Any suggestions you like that packs a lot protein? And which spices etc you use?

krishna bound

4y

i hope nothing you eat has any form of palm or rapeseed oil in it because if it does you are contributing even worse to environmental destruction than anyone eating meat. the environmental effect of these oils in food - ESPECIALLY HEALTH FOOD AND SUPPOSED "ECO-FRIENDLY" PRODUCTS - has done just as much if not more to destroy entire environments than anyone eating beef or hormone'd up franken-chickens. There is no "safe" "ethical" method here. Stop blaming people, we all know who's really at fault and who really needs to change

plants

4y

Beef consumption has f***ing SKYROCKETED over the last century bro what are you on???

Bro if beef and dairy ceased to exist the benefits would be staggering. You say that the dude down the block eating a burger has no effects on the environment and that's just a plain denial of the facts. He is demanding supply, however minute, it still has an impact.

And it's not minute, a single quarter pound beef patty takes 600 gallons of water to create. Cows are unbelievably ineffecient and polluting animals. They contribute the same amount of methane to the environment as the entire natural gas industry ffs!

You can continue to abdicate your personal responsibility so you can live a life of non action or f***ing do something.

Show me your monthly charity donations, show me receipts of your political contributions, post a pic of you in the streets protesting for these animals agriculture industries to be abolished. Oh what's that you're just all talk no walk? get lost bud

krishna bound

4y

overall meat consumption has skyrocketed, this is not fueled by beef, it's fueled by chicken, and if you think it's beef, you're being blatantly lied to. every major statistic shows beef consumption falling in the US since the 70s and being eclipsed by chicken - furthermore the vast majority of global consumption increase comes not from the west but from developing countries, of which, again, is fueled largely by imperialism changing the habits of local consumers; something not the fault of individuals. if your comparison is only the estimated statistic of beef in the post-industrial age vs the 1800s or something, then yeah, i hate to tell you but that's not because of arbitrary consumption habits, that's because of industrialization
Acting as if this has anything to do with ME and MY HABITS is exactly why I can't stand this garbage, bullshit argument. Show me in my post where I said I'm doing anything else or refuting responsibility. I'm not in here dropping MUH BURGER memes like the other people in this thread. I'm making a point about what does and doesn't work. You have no idea what my political contributions (lol), what charities I volunteer for, etc. - acting as if I need to decorate myself with a meritocratic precursor to making a post is exactly why no one takes your arguments seriously and sees it as negligible doomsaying - hence why the entire frontpage is just memes.
Everything comes back down to the individual for people in your crowd, it's never about the brokeness of the system or of acknowledging real blame, it's ALWAYS about ME. Even when you do acknowledge the system it's always "well you're still to blame". No one is saying personal responsibility doesn't matter, they're saying you're lying to yourself if you think the ethicality of consumer habits will ever eclipse the ethicality of the system. Even at the end of your post you have to make the advance conclusion I'm simply morally inferior to you because I'm not on here making bullshit arguments trying to change people's habits. I hate to tell you this, it doesn't matter what you do, I'm glad you think you're being ethical, but you're not, and nothing you do or tens of thousands of people do is going to do anything of value unless you organize for actual systematic change, and that's not consumer-habits, you know what that actually entails
Why even make this post if it's not about the individual? It clearly is because every argument you make comes to down to abdication of personal responsibility and then a reflexive claim of your own moral superiority. I'm not playing this game of trying to post my own portfolio of virtues to argue with you, because it doesn't matter, you know why you made the post and I'm not playing this game.

plants

4y

So you're doing nothing but contributing to the problem. Good s*** man keep up the hard work

krishna bound

4y

keep not reading my posts but claiming you've read 100+ page scientific papers clearly you don't have time for one which is a 15 second read so i'm not gonna trust your a***ysis of the latter either

plants

4y

Btw what is your plan to subvert these industries? I'm all ears

plants

4y

Such discourse, much wow

krishna bound

4y

I'm not writing a manifesto on KTT about political action You can disagree with me all you want, it doesn't change any of the points I made - if you want to imagine me as a boogeyman hypocrite because it's the only way you can refute my argument, then feel free, I'm not going to sit here and wax poetic giving a resume on my virtues for you to decide if you should consider my opinion or not. You can do whatever you want and think of me however you want too, I'm not calling out your own decision-making, but you're delusional if you think your current methods of discourse are doing anything but alienating the population further from what should otherwise be an easy argument. Keep individualizing the problem and see how many successes it nets you. Conversation over, I don't care if you want to think I'm a stupid troll or whatever else, people can decide for themselves and people's reaction on the first page alone speaks volumes about the relative opinion of this method.

plants

4y

If you think about it veganism is way more popular today than it’s ever been and despite of this the meat industry still going about business the same way, if not with worse practices.

Idk i got "why even bother to reduce your meat consumption or go vegan, nothing is changing" vibes from this post man.

plants

4y

lentils, tofu, beans, and nuts mostly

a real susprising thing that my wife recently educated me on is that a salad can have a great deal of whole proteins just due to all the various amino acids in all the plants

here is a little comparison of a big salad that we eat pretty much everyday versus chicken and rice, sorry for the poor quality it's a screenshot from a presentation i did

krishna bound

4y

I'm not writing a manifesto on KTT about political action You can disagree with me all you want, it doesn't change any of the points I made - if you want to imagine me as a boogeyman hypocrite because it's the only way you can refute my argument, then feel free, I'm not going to sit here and wax poetic giving a resume on my virtues for you to decide if you should consider my opinion or not. You can do whatever you want and think of me however you want too, I'm not calling out your own decision-making, but you're delusional if you think your current methods of discourse are doing anything but alienating the population further from what should otherwise be an easy argument. Keep individualizing the problem and see how many successes it nets you. Conversation over, I don't care if you want to think I'm a stupid troll or whatever else, people can decide for themselves and people's reaction on the first page alone speaks volumes about the relative opinion of this method.

JohnCena

4y

are you ever scared of getting kidney stones from spinach or any other high oxalate foods? What do you do from preventing it?