Jun 30, 2020·edited·1 reply
Oblivion XBro at this point i think ur just arguing to argue
The literal definition of centralized disproves what ur trying to say. Search up sunni and shia, its literally two branches of the religion.
And ur point about abrahamic religion doesnt make sense, cause when have u ever heard someone say abrahamic religions are centralized, u never heard that.
And ur wrong sunni and Shia definitely all considered themselves muslims. Literally the shia were wanted to unite them all under one rule of ayatollah
No it doesn't my guy lol. Their authorities govern two separate populations and the authority isn't shared, it exists for two separate groups.
For your last point, wow seems like they're trying to consolidate Islam into even more a centralized authority then aren't they? I mean the entire beginning of Islam was when the prophet wanted to bring the entire region under one religion back when you had various fractions of tribes practicing polytheistic things.
The discrimination and genocides between the two groups and how it's divided the regions they both live kind of show that despite being under 'Islam' they do see themselves differently. To disagree honest is to ignore long history conflict and tension, it's mad disingenuous and just not true.
Again for it to be decentralized both the Ayotallah and Sunni imams would be followed by the same people, Sunni and Shia are not the same. Ignore the general label and look at the reality of their history.
- Jun 30, 2020
@Oblivion99 I'm signing off tho, appreciate you could keep the debate respectful
- Jun 30, 2020·editedMel
No it doesn't my guy lol. Their authorities govern two separate populations and the authority isn't shared, it exists for two separate groups.
For your last point, wow seems like they're trying to consolidate Islam into even more a centralized authority then aren't they? I mean the entire beginning of Islam was when the prophet wanted to bring the entire region under one religion back when you had various fractions of tribes practicing polytheistic things.
The discrimination and genocides between the two groups and how it's divided the regions they both live kind of show that despite being under 'Islam' they do see themselves differently. To disagree honest is to ignore long history conflict and tension, it's mad disingenuous and just not true.
Again for it to be decentralized both the Ayotallah and Sunni imams would be followed by the same people, Sunni and Shia are not the same. Ignore the general label and look at the reality of their history.
"Their authorities govern two separate populations and the authority isn't shared, it exists for two separate groups"
Bro the fact that u said this, is literally agreeing with my point. How can islam be a centralized religion, which means there is a single authority, when there isnt a shared authority
do u see what I mean.Sunni islam is not a different religion than shia islam, its literally different interpretations of the same book.
And no the shia are tryna unite both factions to have a centralized religion.
I think u have a flawed understanding of what it means to be decentralized. It means that their are different leaders and different communities.
Like u wouldnt split america and say nah the west coast of america is not really america its Democrat america and the south is not really america its republican america. Its all part of the whole the same way sunni and shia is all part of the whole of islam
Jun 30, 2020
BnBallinTooIts actually funny that these people will talk about support for minorities, and women on the US, but when something like this happens they will scream "islamophobic".
Judging a country/government for their laws that they justify with religion isnt "Islamophobic" or "racist"...thats not how this works lol.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jun 30, 2020·editedLives in Egypt
Muslim Country
Decides to go against Sharia for clicks and views on a Deviant appwhat a dummy
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replyOblivion X
Bro come on now. How can the WHOLE religion of islam be centralized when there are TWO MAJOR factions. Sunni and shia are still under the umbrella of Islam it's not a separate religion just different sects. That's almost like saying political power in america is centralized, or saying christianity is centralized.
The definition of centralized is literally this
"concentrate (control of an activity or organization) under a single authority"
You can try and argue that shia islam specifically is centralized or sunni Islam is specially centralized, u would lose that argument, but you cant argue that Islam which is made up of BOTH sects is centralized. Because by definition it literally cant be
Shia are not under the umbrella of Islam
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replytravis bickle
Shia are not under the umbrella of Islam
Why do u guys think this ?
Is shia a different religion from islam ?
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replyOblivion X
Why do u guys think this ?
Is shia a different religion from islam ?
I’m Muslim Akhi
They are kufr and deviant in their belief
- Jun 30, 2020·2 repliestravis bickle
I’m Muslim Akhi
They are kufr and deviant in their belief
Would this not be parallel to forms of christianity not considering Catholicism as christianity even tho is.
U might not consider shia Islam, islam but it definitely is a branch of islam that is followed by muslims
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replyOblivion X
Would this not be parallel to forms of christianity not considering Catholicism as christianity even tho is.
U might not consider shia Islam, islam but it definitely is a branch of islam that is followed by muslims
Don’t strawman my argument
They are a branch of Islam just as the Ahmediyya are. Just as the Quranists are
They have deviated from the foundations of the Deen
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replyOblivion X
Would this not be parallel to forms of christianity not considering Catholicism as christianity even tho is.
U might not consider shia Islam, islam but it definitely is a branch of islam that is followed by muslims
I suggest you ask why or do some research on the Shia doctrines of faith before you defend them
- Jun 30, 2020travis bickle
Don’t strawman my argument
They are a branch of Islam just as the Ahmediyya are. Just as the Quranists are
They have deviated from the foundations of the Deen
I'm not tho. U literally just agree with me. They're a branch of islam. Not it's own separate religion.
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replytravis bickle
I suggest you ask why or do some research on the Shia doctrines of faith before you defend them
When did I defend them ? Please quote me where
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replyOblivion X
When did I defend them ? Please quote me where
They are not Muslim
Jun 30, 2020No only fans for you!
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replytravis bickle
They are not Muslim
How can they not be muslims when u just said they're a branch of islam ?
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replyOblivion X
How can they not be muslims when u just said they're a branch of islam ?
Do you consider it permissible to curse and conspire on the Sahaba (RA) who have been guaranteed Jannah?
Or consider Ali (A) divine?
Or believe that it’s permissible to say the 12 Imam’s(including the absentee) are infallible?
They are polytheistic and disbelievers, according to their own books.
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replytravis bickle
Do you consider it permissible to curse and conspire on the Sahaba (RA) who have been guaranteed Jannah?
Or consider Ali (A) divine?
Or believe that it’s permissible to say the 12 Imam’s(including the absentee) are infallible?
They are polytheistic and disbelievers, according to their own books.
Bro I dont agree with their view point, but their sect and branch of islam is based on the quran, how can one that submitted themselves to God and the teachings of the quran, not be a "muslim"
- Jun 30, 2020·1 replyOblivion X
Bro I dont agree with their view point, but their sect and branch of islam is based on the quran, how can one that submitted themselves to God and the teachings of the quran, not be a "muslim"
They are not based on the Quran. Nor do they submit themselves to God or follow the Quran.
If you disagree support your claim.
- Jun 30, 2020·3 repliestravis bickle
They are not based on the Quran. Nor do they submit themselves to God or follow the Quran.
If you disagree support your claim.
How do u want me to support that lol
Do they not say the same call to prayer as us, where they confess there is no god but Allah.
And yea they are based on the Quran how r they not, where do u think the whole split between the sunni and shia originated from.
Jun 30, 2020·1 replyOblivion XHow do u want me to support that lol
Do they not say the same call to prayer as us, where they confess there is no god but Allah.
And yea they are based on the Quran how r they not, where do u think the whole split between the sunni and shia originated from.
don't bother, there's always going to be people in the umma that are complete brick walls when it comes to any sort of meta-discussion.
- Jun 30, 2020ASAKI
don't bother, there's always going to be people in the umma that are complete brick walls when it comes to any sort of meta-discussion.
Akhi there is no brick wall that is standing between a meta discussion aside from you all not willing to denounce those have deviated till they make Tawbah and return to the path of Tauheed and the Prophet, peace be upon him
Jun 30, 2020islamic discourse is wild
- Jun 30, 2020Oblivion X
How do u want me to support that lol
Do they not say the same call to prayer as us, where they confess there is no god but Allah.
And yea they are based on the Quran how r they not, where do u think the whole split between the sunni and shia originated from.
There is no “Follow Ahl ul Bayt and denounce the Muhajiroon and Ansar And the Mother of Believers,” may Allah be pleased with them and Her in the Quran.
There is no “Follow The Infallible Imamate” in the Quran
There is no “Call Ya Ali for help” in the Quran
Shiiism is the spawn of a Yemenite Jew who converted to Islam and had a love for Ali (R)