"You are free to do whatever you think
But you're not free to chose what you think"

Do you believe the free will is real?

Or do you see how our actions are just results of all other past and present conditions having affect on us?

It is cuz I could beat you up

I don't agree that the concept of "free will" doesn't exist. I do agree that people are way more conditioned to think in certain ways than they want to admit (through propaganda and social conditioning and etc) and that it obviously affects how they live their lives, if that's what your quote is getting at

just because actions have consequences doesn't mean free will does not exist.

The devil

u have the free will to smd

but ya tru free will as in the sense of do anything I want to do would just be like god mode

Partially but I don't think you're giving our brain enough credit

We're only using what... 14% of our brain?

There are so many conditions we have no idea about that simply steer our actions

Take weather as an example. With every year we're able to collect more and more data to PREDICT how the weather is going to behave. We make complicated models containing data about winds, temperature, pressure etc. and we're able to calculate how many degrees will there be next Friday and if it's going to rain

Same way we could create an extreeemely complicated model of our brain. And if we could take into account all the incentives we could predict someone's actions.

You wake up one day and you feel like drinking Tea instead of your morning coffee. You think it's your FREE choice. But you cannot explain the origin of that thought. You just woke up and felt like drinking tea instead of coffee. We call it free will bc we can't comprehend the fact we're not really controlling our own mind. We call the moment a thought appears in our head "free will" bc we're simply not able to comprehend from where and why did this thought appear in our brain

Had this conversation high w my niggas so many times lol

I get what you're saying but I don't think the mainstream definition of free will means your exempt from any outside influence

What would the mainstream definition of free will be?

like the ability to decide your choices given the circumstances

obviously 'perfect' free will would be more what your describing but its pretty much impossible to achieve

Yeah I hear where you're coming from, and that ties into what I meant about people being unable or unwilling to acknowledge how much of their personal beliefs/ethics are decided by someone else.

It gets scarier when you consider the secret tech the government and private organizations possess. They've had tech to make people more "suggestible" for decades now and at this point I'm sure they've integrated a lot of lessons learned from MK Ultra

That "we use 10% of our brain" thing is a myth.

We use all of our brain almost always.

I do kind of agree with the other things you're saying and it's an interesting thought / conversation.

You are free to choose what you think. Or rather; some of the things you think.

If you want to think about the last time you had sex, you can choose to think that

But also, your body can control your thoughts or at least add in its own input to your mind. Your mind does not need food, but your body does. The only reason your mind ever knows that your body is hungry is because your body implants thoughts into your mind telling you to feed it

So in that case, yes, your mind is a slave to your body and a slave to its thoughts. Which means sometimes you don’t choose what you’re thinking about. But your body is also a slave to the mind. And if you get your body right & take care of it, it will no longer have to occupy thoughts in your mind and you will be “more” freed up to think whatever you want to think more of the time

And I don't think that's true

I mean...

The fun part about this discussion is that all arguments from people who are against the deterministic view of our world are basically saying "Free will exists bc it exists" they try to disprove this theory by acting like it doesn't exist

So in this situation let's say you stand in a room and have three buttons you can press red white blue

You press the blue button. And pro-FreeWill people will jump from excitement saying "see!!! he had the ability to chose and he chose freely! His actions were free!"

But then you ask yourself a question "why did he chose the blue button"

And if you dig deep enough and had the power to see all the components of this decision you would find out that he picked the blue button bc the temperature in the room made his mind go back to a store he was yesterday where the walls were blue

You see? "we are free to do what we think. But we're not free to chose what we think"

it is if you always listen to your thoughts

Missing the point

I'm free to think about the last time I had s***but why did you think about this particular example?

You think that it was YOUR and fully YOUR Free choice to type this

But maybe your gf just texted you couple seconds before you typed this and you remembered how you had s***last week and that's why you thought about this exact example

You're not free to chose what you think about bc the soul though of trying to think about something you chose came from something external

You get what I mean?

Yeah you can think about your favorite NBA player but why tf did I think about an NBA player rn?

I think It's one of the most exciting concepts I've stumbled upon in my life

Completely changes the perspective and the discussion is very entertaining

We call it Free Will bc we cannot comprehend how the world really works

🥺

I get what your saying

im saying that there's no point in aspiring to that since its impossible to reach

The discussion is pointless because whether free will exists independently of our own observation or not, we can still decide whether we believe in free will or not, so for all intents and purposes it exists

1. Physics is fundamentally indeterminate at a subatomic level. It's an open question whether quantum effects scale up to an environment like the brain, but the quantum brain hypothesis has recently undergone a non-trivial resurgence.

2. Even if determinism were true, it's not perfectly predictive from the point of view of an observer causally connected to the deterministic environment (this is the prediction machine paradox).

So at best, a God-like entity externally observing the Universe views humans as deterministic .. but who cares?

3. There's no actual scientific or neurological basis for determinism, it's just an inference we make based on a classical understanding of physics. Yes, the Libet experiments and the experiment with the buttons are terrible and don't prove anything.

4. This all presumes a physicalist metaphysics. If that's incorrect, then the very notion of free will being an illusion is incoherent.