moving the goalposts much

Cisgender

yeah in response to your first sentence - it should just all boil down to:

if you choose to do it, who cares
if you choose not to, who cares

people shouldn’t be forced to do it, but they should have the option to do it if they choose

"Note that although it is true to say that first person refers to speaker/writer, second person to hearer/reader and third person to third parties, English shows some untypical uses....You can be used to refer to people in general (preferable in some varieties of English to the indefinite one), e.g., Chocolate is actually good for you; in special cases of extreme politeness third person forms can be used to refer to the hearer (a kind of distancing technique), e.g. If Madam so desires, she could have the waist taken in a little; they often appear as a gender-neutral third person singular pronoun, e.g., If anyone wants it, they can have pavlova with extra whipped cream. We often hear the argument that this 'singular they' is grammatically incorrect because a plural pronoun shouldn't refer back to a singular word and that he should be used instead, but clearly, this is linguistically unfounded. As we've just discussed, English has many examples where for special purposes pronouns depart from their central meaning—as so often is the case, there is no perfect match between form and meaning here."

Introducing English Grammar by Kersti Börjars and Kate Burridge

Hope that helps

i feel like putting your pronoun in your bio wont help to normalize anything because people don’t really care as much as y’all would want them to. people don’t care because it’s not a big deal to them, they’ll just say to correct people when they f*** up. the amount of vitriol garnered every time someone questions this is egregious considering all black people have been through and it’s still people out here being called the N word. it’s laughable to the people i’m around day to day and i see the point but i can’t argue it to them because there are so many holes in the “why” of the conversation. it’s much harder to get people to want to change their language than you might think, you gotta have insurmountable logic when talking to some people. i understand why y’all do it, but how can i explain to someone who i know won’t care, and make them care? i have yet to see an answer to that other than “spare feelings”. while a common trope in the world i live in is “fuck peoples feelings”. because of that, pronouns in the bio is hard to sell to a nigga who see’s the fight black people are going thru, it’s laughable to most, understandably.

Not it’s actual curiosity. There’s some insightful replies on here And I wish they would’ve quoted me originally

I know this isn’t in direct response to OP but I’ve seen it brought up multiple times in this thread:

Teachers should not force students to do it, but provide an option for people who want to. that way, if people have different pronouns then how they look in the exterior they can, and people who want to be an ally can, but people who don’t want to provide pronouns don’t have to

I.e. teachers on the first day of class can say:

“Ok I will do a roll call, when you hear your name raise your hand and if you would like to declare your pronouns feel free to do so”

My whole thing is, people should have the freedom to do it, but also have the freedom to not do it

BINGO, see if I didn’t have to clock back into work I would’ve had the time to actually post my viewpoint. But this is exactly how I feel

my point exactly. people don’t understand because it’s not easy to understand. so stop calling folks out for not understanding. or you’ll never get understanding. just do you and people gotta deal with it, let’s not force people to understand things because it’ll be met with pushback every time

I tried

11% is still a minority

That's roughly 9/10 women that didn't experience fertility issues

then we can get into what fertility issues is :what percentage of that 11% still can have children with medical assistance? What percentage is outruled to conceive
Is that 11% proportionate to males having fertility issues?

Lastly, what I'm saying is : the norm is to assume that the woman you're with can have babies, 11% having fertility issues isn't changing that assumption especially in the age of technology where medical assistance/treatment exist to assure a woman can have babies... Most people are ignorant to those procedures and find out at fertility clinics how tedious and painful (for the woman) the process can be

Women still benefit from a level of understanding when they go through such issues
In alot of these cases, the couple has hope that they can conceive some even don't rely on medical care and straight up just have "hope" (I know of a couple that stayed together 10+ years praying they'll conceive a child ans eventually did)
, trans women don't get that benefit as they're immediately outcasted and not regarded as a viable option for starting a family
I don't think it's right, I just think it is.

no you’re not p****

lol (edit: even though you are being sarcastic) i actually agree with this tbh. as an introvert I hate saying anything out loud in class, I would be fine with just walking in and staying quiet the whole time

edit; although, the point of roll call is to mark your attendance, which is a required part of your assumed class/schooling contract most of the time if it is declared in the syllabus, so it’s not the same thing lol

never really gaf about pro nouns since I hardly come across someone using one

to say 10% of the population as a minority is kinda ridiculous imo
and the article answers all your questions

i forgot what your initial point was but infertility in cis-gendered ppl is common af
it dont sit right with me that you're writing off 1/10 people as being insignificant

the point of the original post was to say the idea of trans women "lying" and not being women bc they cant conceive is inherently flawed
being able to bear children isn't what defines womanhood or whatever

exactly what i’m trying to say.

i didn’t enter this thread talking about if people shouldn’t do it, when i entered the thread i saw someone insulting someone for asking why they should do it, and being called hella names because they didn’t understand, which is beyond counterproductive. which is what i was speaking to.

i still don’t see how practical pronouns in the bio are but you not gonna call me dumb while i’m trying to understand and there are real holes in the practicality.

because of that, there actually is merit to putting it in your bio, but there is no merit to being mad at someone for not rushing to do it just because you choose to.

like, good for you, but i’m not an a****** because i don’t.

if you feel being a bio warrior is is effective in practice then of course i’m gonna look like an a******, but i don’t think that s*** is effective in practice. most people don’t. so y’all come off looking crazy vouching so hard for the s***

Not everything you so has meaning
Most actually just is normalized behavior that you picked up somewhere
For example : you calling a grown man sir isn't something that you can justify/explain to the homies because you don't have to explain anything: it's normal behavior
You assumed they were a sir because they looked the part, and you called them that then proceeded to live your life as usual
You didn't save a life doing so
If you called him a "ma'am" he would've corrected you and that's it, probably also taken offense to it as he believes that he looks/acts like man thus has to be adressed as such (which is fair)

Some Trans/NB people when asking you to adress them as their preferred pronouns live in fear of not looking the part enough in order to be identified how they see fit, they thus jump the gun by putting their pronouns on display to avoid the misunderstandings

It's actually helpful to them and to anyone that's not rude whilst adressing a person (imo)

there's a user in this thread that didn't want to be labeled cis, and other users replied to that user, calling that user cisgender.. but i'm the one you decided to come for. what, you thought it was some kind of easy dunk or some s***? clown behavior from u

that smugness of "i know about a topic that you don't" ostracizes people btw. learn to normalize teaching people about concepts they don't know about, without shaming them for their ignorance.

you can't have it both ways: you can't want people to conform to your standards of calling people by their preferred pronouns (or whatever topic really), if you're just going to shame them anytime they demonstrate their ignorance. it's counterintuitive to the goal you're trying to achieve

Typed a novel to pretty much say: “its hard to sell and other people are focusing on their own struggle”

I get what you saying but its not valid, people can be aware of more than one struggle at once, black trans people deal with racism and transphobia together, black women deal wit misogyny and racism together, and black gays deal with homophobia and racism together.

And its a lot easier than many people think to change people’s language, we just normalize new rules, which is what “pronouns in bio” people are attempting to do.

Niggas pretend they wanna understand so bad like they just cant google lmfao

If you just wanna argue just say that

I'm not writing them of as being insignificant at all

I'm stating that most people do: it doesn't cross the regulars person's mind when going on a date that the women he's seeing may have a 1/10 chance of having infertility issues

even if their infertile, the norm is to assume they're not : that's why for those women announcing this can be very hard too as they believe they let someone down. However, that same infertile women will have support as regular people recognize that it's beyond her control
Same rhetoric and sympathy in a perfect world would be applied to transgender women but we're not there yet

Woman being infertile doesn't get the same reception as a transgendered woman is my point I really believe that most people will avoid being with transgendered people for any reason

nobody cares if you can bear a child on a date, that's just an easy go-to excuse to not regard transpeople as viable romantic partners
Rarely do people go on a date thinking they'd dump the woman if they happen to be infertile...
so yeah just like women don't have disclose that info on first dates transwomen shouldn't have to either (in a more tolerant world)

if i call a nigga ma’am he gonna call me out and i’ll correct myself. but if he look a little bit like a ma’am then he’s gotta just understand my mistake, he can’t expect to me to throw away my previous perception of what a girl looks like (which cause the mistake) because his feelings are hurt by niggas thinking he’s a girl. it’s on him to deal with that and stand proudly in that reality if he wants real respect. correct niggas every time if he has to. but expecting the world stop looking at him like that is stupid because that’s what the world has been, change comes over time. it’s a good fight, i just don’t think pronouns in the bio are what’ll lead to that change, it’s just funny watching people get so up in arms about something that i think won’t really spark change. the bio conversation will be met with more side eyes than a “eureka” moment. but folks act like this s*** changing the world. i’m of the belief change happens outside. its more effective to be corrected EVERYTIME than to be told to do something to save feelings. it’s a savage world, that bio s*** ain’t effective here. black folks still suffering bruh, but i don’t feel any less than when i run into a racist mf cause he don’t understand me, f*** him. he gotta deal with me being me. it ain’t gonna make me feel better cause all my white homegirls from hs have blm in their bio, imma still have to deal with the same racist mf’s til they die off. so i don’t care if they DONT have blm in their bio, imma still have to deal with them same racist mf’s til they die off. world will be better in 20 years in all these fights once a lot of these niggas die off, we can’t change their minds