we not doing this bro

masculine validation comes from output - whether that’s food, sex, money, etc.

It isn’t masculine to give a f*** about being judged by others. If what you’re doing is getting you results, you proceed with it despite what anyone gotta say

And so you don’t think feminine gender roles are a prison? What exactly makes being a “man” something especially egregious in the context of gendered expectations

True

now what does being a hunter gatherer/being more physical or being a caretaker have to do with wanting external validation?

Especially cause...seeking external validation I think is a human trait in general because we are a very social species and in order to be social we gotta be perceived an to be perceived means validation is inevitable.

Who's begging men to be more vulnerable? And then also criticising men for being too vulnerable/emotional or calling them gay for what they wear? That's exactly what you're talking about in your OP

@op yes

I would say the hunter gatherer role is intrinsically linked with performing an action for output. Getting words of encouragement to a hunter gatherer means nothing when there isn’t food on the table after a long day of work. If anything, one can argue external validation is a hindrance. As a hunter gatherer, you’re competing with others to put food on the table. Validation is knowing the food is on your table and not theirs.

Whereas being a caretaker does require emotional validation to a big degree. Yes, the bare minimum is to keep that person alive. But beyond that, you need emotional validation from the person being cared for that the care you’re providing is right. And emotional/mental care is just as important as physical. It’s why the feminine aspect is to truly understand the emotional nature of others to perform that role

Of course. I guess I'm equating gender roles to what the society wants versus just wanting to express as masc versus fem.

What I'm saying is just because someones presents masc or fem shouldnt mean they should be obligated to portray those roles that's expected of such.

I'm getting terms mixed up lol. I just woke up and got hours to kill before rehearsal.

the honest answer here is that this site has too many cis people to have a real conversation about gender/presentation.

For every burgeoning/cogent discussion there's a guy who's going to derail it

Straight women can be some of the most homophobic people out there when they find out a guy they're interested in could be attracted to other men. Tell your girl you had a bi/gay phase and see how that goes

well i mean there is a correlation between hyper-masculinity and depression/ suicidal thoughts. i hate to say it, but there’s a reason why black mens suicide rates are higher than they’ve ever been

And I can argue all of that is the fault of the patriarchy for pushing that message down for centuries.

It's men itt saying wanting external validation is a female trait. No woman said that lol.

Now we podding.

Gender is socially defined, you really can't decide to engage in gendered expressions without being measured against the perceptions that come with assuming the label.

It’s contradictory.

it's a prison if you let it be for sure. there will be those around you who want you to conform but you just have to be true to yourself tbh

this is in no way minimizing the fact that we gotta deal living in a white supremacy world, but still our hyper-masculine culture as black men doesn’t help matters either

You have masculinity if you are afraid to lose your d***. There’s no spectrum. It’s pass or fail

Also it’s pretty ridiculous to think that women arent trapped in an equally terrible situation

I don't think men are the ones behind this push for men to be more vulnerable. Many of us realise it's just women thinking that's what they want but we know a lot of them truly don't fw seeing a man expressing vulnerability

ktt2.com/official-list-of-things-you-cant-do-32499645
A lot of this s*** in jokes but there are earnest tweets in here. And it's mostly women

this ^ gender is inherently a performance, there's no real way to present without the viewer (in this case the individual and society)

I think aspects of it are performative for sure when it comes to dating or meeting new people but ultimately who you are alone or with family or your closest friends tends to be geared towards how you were raised and the behaviors you learned from an early age - behaviors which typically align with core masculine / feminine behaviors

I 110% agree with ya.

I can only discuss in earnest from my own perspective tho. But is gender itself a prison does have a better tone to it, as it is a social construct.

the world was so much more fluid before the binary was pushed onto everybody.

What is masculinity lol? I always wanted to ask but didn’t wanna look stupid.

fair 'nuff.

Masculine and feminine behaviors are socially defined and taught… and expressed in even the most intimate social situations