Skinn Foley

1y

I don't subscribe to the idea that N.W.A. were bad for hip hop or even popularized "negativity" in hip hop, but I do think Dr. Dre's legacy for hip hop becomes more and more overtly questionable by the day. So many of the negative trends gangsta rap/"street rap" can have, but don't always have, originated from The Chronic onward.

Eminem and 50 Cent are colossally negative in this regard too, both of whom were molded by Dre.

SLYOOPER TIMBO

1y

And ironically enough I was watching the Slim Jesus video yesterday @op when he was talking about how he was clowned for saying he likes rapping about it but not being about but Lil Tecca didn’t get that same pushback when he did the same thing.

X7JQ9L2MF4A8Z

1y

i think it’s indisputable that rap pressures you to put on a tough persona though, a good swath of the all time greats that are commonly mentioned (Wayne, 2Pac, HOV, Biggie, Eminem etc.) all pretty much had a hyper-masculine attitude even if it was coupled with introspective lyrics/socially conscious stuff, it’s difficult to not feel the need to model it

it kind of reminds me of how in the 60s there was that huge boom with psychedelic rock and a bunch of uptight middle class yuppies turning into psychedelic popping hippies talking about free love, good energy and being anti-war etc. it got so big that even corporations started running psychedelic ads on TV

obviously that hippie movement didn’t last as long as the current hip-hop zeitgeist, and i think that’s largely probably due to how young hip-hop is as a genre, i’d hope it would shift eventually maybe but that’s probably not gonna happen for quite awhile tbh

BlueChew Sean

1y

If the biggest rapper feels pressure to put on this persona, what does that tell you about everyone else? Rappers feel the need to do the gangster/street thing or the depressed/drug thing because that's what the people want

Skinn Foley

1y

I think the void that's slowly being filled is that aggressive, intimidating, raw conscious rap petered out of style in the mainstream beginning in the early 90s (if not the late 80s), so the only viable and largely known, modern ability for artists to be taken seriously as being "hard" in some capacity comes from the avenue of certain kinds of trap, drill, and "gangsta rap" in general.

Public Enemy for example could make unbelievably hard music that portrayed Chuck D in a tough and even intimidating light but did so without having to cater to vulgar masculine stereotypes and creating a facade for how his life was to seem "hood". Ironically enough, a lot of old PE records had a lot of respect in the "hood" that many modern wannabe trap artists/gangsta rappers lack despite trying to come across as either being "from the streets" or "in touch with the streets", Drake being one of many examples of this gap between public image and actual resonance in the communities and environments Drake tries to invoke to prove his "street cred".

At some point in the 2000s, "conscious rap" became associated with smooth, polite, and inoffensive music that had a "message", which largely extracted the most fundamental aspect about acts like Public Enemy, Paris, the political sides of Ice Cube, Dead Prez, KRS-One, etc, so gripping, in that the fury against injustice of some kind was missing from the music. It was seen as almost vulgar or "ignorant" to make aggressive rap music at all, especially by a lot of backpacker movements in the 2000s that thought such a sound was poorly representing "real hip hop", the vision for "real hip hop" in their eyes being an extremely narrow, polished, and one-sided perspective of the 90s jazz rap movement. Thus, the ability to make cathartic, "hard" music that could be taken seriously got squeezed out of the industry in a lot of ways, and made "real hip hop" perceived as this overly polite and in some cases whitewashed, tame style of music, that is largely alien to the grassroots of the abrasive, confrontational sound of hip hop in all its forms, whereas trap is obviously much more belligerent, cathartic, and raw sonically, at least outside of the times that it is co-opted into pop music of some kind.

There's a slow fomenting of "exciting" and "raw" conscious rap bubbling up in the underground but we still have a ways to go before we start getting s*** like "Fight the Power", "Sound of Da Police", "It's Bigger Than Hip Hop", "m.A.A.d City", etc, up to the forefront of the culture. Kendrick is basically the only big rapper who comes with that adrenaline pumping style of conscious rap in the mainstream and even in the underground itself, it's a rarity but has grown since the start of the 2020s. People need to see that anger and rage at something, be it systemic injustice or everyday life in poverty/crime can be expressed effectively and confrontationally outside of the context of trying to be "street", because a lot of modern street music doesn't even do a good job at illuminating the larger reality that "street life" is born out of to begin with. I blame Dre for that development frankly.

Zero

1y

B.O.B has to be the greatest example of this

Skinn Foley

1y

I think the void that's slowly being filled is that aggressive, intimidating, raw conscious rap petered out of style in the mainstream beginning in the early 90s (if not the late 80s), so the only viable and largely known, modern ability for artists to be taken seriously as being "hard" in some capacity comes from the avenue of certain kinds of trap, drill, and "gangsta rap" in general.

Public Enemy for example could make unbelievably hard music that portrayed Chuck D in a tough and even intimidating light but did so without having to cater to vulgar masculine stereotypes and creating a facade for how his life was to seem "hood". Ironically enough, a lot of old PE records had a lot of respect in the "hood" that many modern wannabe trap artists/gangsta rappers lack despite trying to come across as either being "from the streets" or "in touch with the streets", Drake being one of many examples of this gap between public image and actual resonance in the communities and environments Drake tries to invoke to prove his "street cred".

At some point in the 2000s, "conscious rap" became associated with smooth, polite, and inoffensive music that had a "message", which largely extracted the most fundamental aspect about acts like Public Enemy, Paris, the political sides of Ice Cube, Dead Prez, KRS-One, etc, so gripping, in that the fury against injustice of some kind was missing from the music. It was seen as almost vulgar or "ignorant" to make aggressive rap music at all, especially by a lot of backpacker movements in the 2000s that thought such a sound was poorly representing "real hip hop", the vision for "real hip hop" in their eyes being an extremely narrow, polished, and one-sided perspective of the 90s jazz rap movement. Thus, the ability to make cathartic, "hard" music that could be taken seriously got squeezed out of the industry in a lot of ways, and made "real hip hop" perceived as this overly polite and in some cases whitewashed, tame style of music, that is largely alien to the grassroots of the abrasive, confrontational sound of hip hop in all its forms, whereas trap is obviously much more belligerent, cathartic, and raw sonically, at least outside of the times that it is co-opted into pop music of some kind.

There's a slow fomenting of "exciting" and "raw" conscious rap bubbling up in the underground but we still have a ways to go before we start getting s*** like "Fight the Power", "Sound of Da Police", "It's Bigger Than Hip Hop", "m.A.A.d City", etc, up to the forefront of the culture. Kendrick is basically the only big rapper who comes with that adrenaline pumping style of conscious rap in the mainstream and even in the underground itself, it's a rarity but has grown since the start of the 2020s. People need to see that anger and rage at something, be it systemic injustice or everyday life in poverty/crime can be expressed effectively and confrontationally outside of the context of trying to be "street", because a lot of modern street music doesn't even do a good job at illuminating the larger reality that "street life" is born out of to begin with. I blame Dre for that development frankly.

insertcoolnamehere

1y

S*** like this why niggas should really get behind niggas like Ghais Guevara ngl.

AGoodBoyo

1y

At some point in the 2000s, "conscious rap" became associated with smooth, polite, and inoffensive music that had a "message", which largely extracted the most fundamental aspect about acts like Public Enemy, Paris, the political sides of Ice Cube, Dead Prez, KRS-One, etc

So f***ing true.

bandslabands

1y

Just another motherfuckin' day for Dre, so I'll begin like this
No medallions, dreadlocks or black fists
It's just that gangsta glare with gangsta raps
That gangsta s*** makes a gangs of snaps, uh
Word to the motherfuckin' streets

The name is Dre Eastwood when I'm packing a gun
You don't believe me, well step up and give it a try
And if you die, you's a buster, 'cause real niggas don't die
But some still don't hear me, though

The Chronic lyrics are funny asf down to the intro

SegaDreamFlash

1y

Lowkey if you pay attention Drake was leaning into the mafioso s*** since Take Care lol he just went mask off years later

SLYOOPER TIMBO

1y

And on the topic of Aubrey he caught flack by being vulnerable in his music. People called him gay back in the day. He got the Sisqo treatment

ragedsycokiller

1y

It's why I miss the blog rap era of 2010-2013. You can have masculinity without trying to be hard or a shooter.

SLYOOPER TIMBO

1y

And on the topic of Aubrey he caught flack by being vulnerable in his music. People called him gay back in the day. He got the Sisqo treatment

insertcoolnamehere

1y

Ehhhhh I dont think bro was catching flack for being vulnerable. The homophobia was there and that was wrong but vulnerability alone wasnt what niggas was killing him for.

Think the way he went about it was something niggas was killing him for (and a lot of TC lyrics are kinda…mad cringe lets keep it a buck)