what does it mean to be able to, at minimum, speak and communicate vs being well-spoken and articulate. is there a difference? does a speech need a metaphor or literary device to elicit a response from the crowd?

Why even bump this

This is a great question. We aren’t able to articulate what we truly find to be lyrical in a widely accepted sense, so we conflate that with the myth that being lyrical doesn’t matter

Sadly one of the only conclusions to draw when everyone can feel what being lyrical is but nobody can articulate it

it does matter

Yeah you're being purposefully obtuse in missing the point I'm trying to make.

Let me get more explicit

One would say Drake isn't lyrical but Nas is, which I don't agree with.

One would say J. Cole is Lyrical, but Lil baby isn't. I wouldn't agree with that.

The reality is, is that what it means to be lyrical in Hip-Hop is a definition and connotation that's incredibly stringent and outdated

They can't articulate it because and can only feel it because they're conditioned to view lyricism in like, a boom bap 90's prism of lyricism

Plenty of rappers are lyrical. A ton use a vast amount of similes, metaphors, different rhyme schemes, etc. hip-hop has just evolved in a way that combines lyricism with songmaking

My god shut the f*** up

No one thing makes or breaks you

Yep this is it. And 90s NY media bias having such a strong influence on how we view what hiphop ‘should’ be definitely plays a role

oh i didn’t intend it that way. it’s more to shed light on what you said, lyricism is arbitrary as a label and the borders are blurred depending on the subgenre a rapper is grouped in.

Ahhh my bad fam, I'm an idiot lol

but agree with this sentiment 100%

based on most albums which are considered classics in hip hop, i would agree lyricism itself does not inherently matter, but coherency/consistency and conceptualization do; the most straightforward way of conceptualizing something is usually through lyricism (i.e. 90s rap), but distinctiveness/authenticity of style and coherency with that across a project often trumps that.

You ain't even post the full version of the song where they actually get into some storytelling, stealing a nigga's girl, doing and pushing coke, along with the usual tropes you hear in rap music today. It just sounds like some late 70s early 80s s***.

It does get into being a good lyricist, writing your own rhymes, and dissing other MCs. There are slightly different flows throughout the entire song too. For its time, this was considered rapping well. It was released 1979-1980. And if lyrical ability didn't matter in hip-hop how come we got this song in 1982 that boasted much more emphasis on lyrics, flows, rhyming ability?

Clearly lyrical ability has always been important. S***, because of the lyrical content of this song, it lowkey still holds up today.

Now that this stupid as thread had been bumped, mods need to lock this dumbass s***.

It doesn't matter if the song is incredibly dope or you push the genre forward. It does in general because that's what got people interested in rap. And yes, hits can display lyrical ability most of the goats do this all the time

While at the same time as this you had Schooly D aka one of the first "lyrical" rappers ever in the late 70s n early 80s lol

Let not even talk about Grandmaster Flash who had the first "lyrical" song become a hit very early on

They act like both styles didnt exist since damn near the beginning & cant

@op lost

People that try to skew early rap as only party Rap (mostly because they only know of the biggest hits) is such bullshit lol

Who bumped this s*** man

It does

You could have a hard ass beat and a nice melody but if your lyrics aren’t there then the song it self becomes trash.

Lyrics/bars + good production stand the test of time rather than trash lyrics with good production.

lol KTT just loves to argue man