So because other countries don't receive the help they deserve it's okay to make fun of a country under attack?

You have a problem with em cause they're a country in Europe, mainly white, and receiving mad help from the US/EU. Kinda weird ngl. You could say that the US/EU is at fault; but why would Ukraine be at fault for asking for that help. That they don't know, or don't want to see, they're being used to fight a proxy war is not their fault. They got attacked. Speak to Ukrainians and you might know what they actually think. The ones i spoke to don't see it like that at all. I tried to make the same arguments as you do, but there's no point for them in making clear it's a proxy war or saying it will take years and Russia won't be beaten

Everytime got responses like: we do it for the people living in those regions, not wanting to be under Russian control etc. Why would you make fun of them trying to defend their country lmao? If it's smart is another thing. We would probably give our country up in 5 days like in World War 2 lmao, i would too, but they're not like that. I don't see why you would make fun of that

I question the popularity of Zelensky since day one

You actually believe this?

I don't make fun of them defending their country themselves, as somebody who is Ethiopian and takes great pride in how my ancestors defended themselves against outside invaders I would be more inclined to mock how cucked Dutch folks s*** their pants and gave up everything like you said.

I however do make fun of them expecting to get unprecedented and ridiculous amounts in military aid and even direct military intervention between nuclear superpowers because of their territorial dispute, that's a whole different issue.

Then the question is more if they really expect it or just ask for it in the hopes the US/EU gives them what they need, cause they been giving them a lot already.. can feel like they expect to get aid, but could just be that they try everything to get that help cause they know it's a lost cause without it anyway..

In the field of psychology, this is what what we would call "cope"

When your country is invaded by a superpower, and the help you can get is from another superpower, you obv gon take it and try to get the most you can get

Ukrainians don't care bout being in a proxy war between superpowers. They only think bout the help they can get to defend their country lmao

That's why there always gon be proxy wars too. Easy market for weapons too. Win-win for the superpowers with their nuclear weapons that can't be beaten anyway. Y'all can say they stupid for being dragged into a proxy war, but what is the other option? Giving up. And they don't want that atm

Ukrainians don't care bout being in a proxy war between superpowers

And that's exactly the problem, if they realized that they were, maybe they wouldn't have let themselves be sacrificed by the west for the sole purpose of not having a written agreement that they wouldn't join NATO

Knowing how the Russian regime talks bout Ukraine they would've invaded anyway. The chances on a NATO membership just accelerated that. It's not for nothing a lot of the neighbouring countries and old-Soviet states fear them like that my man

And then the choice would've been the same. Take help from the other superpower and be dragged into a proxy war or give up territory and people to Russia. You just said you respect them for fighting like this for their country cause of your Ethiopian background. So would you let Ethiopia make that same choice? Would you tell Ethiopia to not take and ask for help from Russia in such a conflict?

Knowing how the Russian regime talks bout Ukraine they would've invaded anyway. The chances on a NATO membership just accelerated that.

Then why not at least absolve your side from responsibility by not letting NATO membership play a part? The West shares guilt for what is now happening in Ukraine because of that, whether the West or Ukraine acknowledges that or not.

Ukraine can ask for military aid, but they go much further than just asking for a bit of aid, you realize all the economic impact this has been having for western countries as well? You realize Zelensky was faking the possibility of another Chernobyl to bait NATO into instituting a no-fly zone? The weapons Menelik bought for the battle of Adwa is nowhere near comparable lol.

The second mistake you're making is the chronology, no outside power egged Ethiopia on to take a hostile posture towards Italy for their own interests or join an anti-Italian military alliance. Italy was determined to do what they wanted to do way before.

The third mistake you're making is comparing the objectives of Italy in Ethiopia to those of Russia in Ukraine. Italy wanted to colonize Ethiopia, Russia wants Ukraine to not join a hostile military alliance and wants sovereignty/independence granted to the regions where those people themselves wanted it. Nobody in Ethiopia wanted to be an Italian colony, as a matter of fact the whole conflict between Eritrea and Ethiopia started because Menelik didn't do enough in their eyes to protect them from the Italians, you don't see the Donbas mad that Ukraine didn't fight against their battle for independence hard enough the past 8 years

Hes gonna do the rational thing and ask, even when he knows he won't get it

Rationally asking for nuclear superpowers to cause human extinction

You're comparing it to the battle of Adwa, but I'm not. I'm saying if Ethiopia would be in a comparable conflict as Ukraine now.
The Donbas part, let's project it on Ethiopia. What if the USA swoops in for certain regions in Ethiopia, with an actual invasion and not the help they been giving already.

You wouldnt agree with Ethiopia asking Russia for military aid against another superpower in such a conflict, cause it has the potential to be a world war right? You look at it from the outsider perspective, but i'm saying from their perspective it isn't weird. The initial post i responded on was making fun of that. That's why I brought up Ethiopia, not cause of the battle of Adwa.

It's also not Ukraine that decides what military aid is given. The West decides that. Why blame them for trying their best to receive heavy weapons? They actually have to fight the way stronger Russians

That last point you're making isn't completely true. The main reason for Putin isn't NATO or the Donbas. It's the same imperial reasoning. He sees Ukraine as part of Russia.

Obviously I would have the same stance because I would never be in favor of Ethiopia joining an imperialist military alliance like NATO in the first place

Ukraine can ask for ridiculous amounts of military aid if they want to, but the reason that they feel entitled to that is just the result of the delusion they've gotten themselves into by thinking the US doesn't see them as a proxy to hurt Russia and nothing more than that and also their elevated self-importance of the narrative that they've been fed that they're "fighting for Europe and democracy", that was my original point, and yes there's nothing wrong with calling that what it is namely some bullshyt

OP updated for those who wanted kt

It's not a proxy to hurt Russia at all. The US wouldn't give a single f*** about Russia if they weren't doing s*** like this.

The issue is not that they're asking for help, it's that they keep escalating the ask to ridiculous heights under which it's clear they won't be satisfied until they drag their allies into a direct conflict with their opposition; the ask has gone higher and higher and required more and more direct engagement on a monthly basis and this shows no sign of slowing done. The amount the US & EU have done for Ukraine vs every other regional conflict including an allied party is already a key indicator of there being ulterior motives on the side of Ukraine's allies - of course, people in Ukraine in the government aren't stupid, they are aware these proxy motives exist and are trying to take advantage of them.
This isn't an ontological debate about whether or not Zelensky can morally justify his actions given his circumstance; it's a question of whether the geopolitics are justifiable given the wider situation these actions find themselves in. I said it before; if it's a war of self-determination, then let it be so - I don't care and all the better for Ukranian People if they win the war. But what is the goal of Zelensky now? To fight a forever war against Russia off of the taxpayer money of people abroad? To actually invade Russia back? His goal posts have shifted from preservation of Ukraine and expelling Russia into winning a aggressive war against Russia.
The escalation is getting to the point (past it) Zelensky is essentially asking his allies to wage nuclear war on behalf of their own nationalist interests whereas he could far more easily bring the war to an end by ceding Donbas and preserving the current sphere of the country. I'm not saying this is a "good" outcome - however, sorry, postponing an inevitable outcome in lieu of creating a foreign-funded forever war is not "in the interest of the Ukranian People". Everyone here knows I am not anti-nationalism, but I am against the faux-nationalism presented by twisting a nationalist coat of paint to cover global (see: american) ulterior interests.

bro what

while it's true the US has had a preferred trade partner status w/ Russia prior to this, US foreign interest has been diametrically opposed to the country for at least 2 decades. the hope of the US has always been that trade with Russia would further liberalize the country by introducing economic freedoms associated with the western bloc (see: china strategy)

im not even going to get into the anti-Russia public sentiment from the early/mid 2010s and instead just talk about actual government policy; does the middle east not exist? the caucasus? south asia???? the US has supported (on a far more minor scale) allies challenging Russia geographic interests for years

Right lmao

russia is a large rust bucket with a bad economy, only able to challenge the us on a regional level.

if they werent bothering anyone, the us would simply not care. it has way bigger priorities. theyre happy to let russia be misgoverned if it isnt imposing its will elsewhere

So why are we, as ordinary people supporting the US sending billions of dollars that could be reinvested to the people into something as pointless as political map painting

I’m not criticizing that. I’m just saying it’s unreasonable to support such a dumb request.

The economy may be bad but that economy also sent the rest of the Western world into a spiral

if russia succeeds, and succeeds quickly it's georgia next, then lithuania, before you know it russia has an economic and political hold on poland

salami slicing needs to aborted on inception else your alliances are demonstrably weaker and enemy incrementally gains

all the people of europe have an interest in rust bucket dictatorships being kept the f*** away