Communism Thread

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  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Astronaut Dad

    @Scratchin_Bandit
    http://redandgreen.org/pete/einstein.pdf

    Link not working for me what is it

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Astronaut Dad

    Wouldn’t that inevitably lead to a barter system where people exchange labour vouchers for goods they want more of to people who don’t care for said goods

    the point is to inextricably link labour vouchers to the actual expropriated labour value a worker produces.

    plus w modern technology such as credit cards lol we can create a system of labour value payment that doesn't have the side effects of creating a black market or commodity markets

    paul cockshott and his book "Towards a New Socialism" goes into the economics of it

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    americana

    The book yes

    Mostly breaking down the dynamics and mechanics of capitalism and how it’s contradictions become evident through such, how Marxist theory observe and solve parts of, etc etc

    marxists.org/archive/mandel/1967/intromet/index.htm

  • Feb 8, 2022
    Synopsis

    tbh this was a useful post

    Ur welcome king

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Astronaut Dad

    Aren’t labour vouchers just money with a different name

    1. They cannot circulate
    2. They expire upon use
    3. They expire if not used after a given amount of time
    4. No intetest rates or usury is possible
    5. You cannot make "money from money" anymore, you actually have to work for the wage
    6. No "passive income" can exist
    7. It only applies to the domestic consumer-to-business economy, not to the business-to-business economy
    8. They are digital, not physical, and tied to your name

    So no

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    edited
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    1 reply
    Astronaut Dad

    Wouldn’t that inevitably lead to a barter system where people exchange labour vouchers for goods they want more of to people who don’t care for said goods

    The product you buy will be worth as much LV as the product you would barter for so why not just buy the desired product in the first place?

    Doesn't make sense unless there was a massive sudden change in demand/supply which the whole system tries to avoid as much as possible anyway

    The system is built around the exchange value and socially necessary labor time and price correlating, which would mean always averaging towards an equilibrium between supply and demand

  • Feb 8, 2022
    Scratchin Mamba

    Link not working for me what is it

    Einstein explains why he’s a socialist
    exponentialimprovement.com/cms/uploads/Einstein%20on%20Why%20Socialism.pdf

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    ARCADE GOON

    The product you buy will be worth as much LV as the product you would barter for so why not just buy the desired product in the first place?

    Doesn't make sense unless there was a massive sudden change in demand/supply which the whole system tries to avoid as much as possible anyway

    The system is built around the exchange value and socially necessary labor time and price correlating, which would mean always averaging towards an equilibrium between supply and demand

    Well let’s say I really like idk painting right. And I want to get another canvas or paint supplies or sum. Then my friend really like pints of activas. But I don’t, and he doesn’t like painting, but we both used our specified amount of LV towards whatever good we like, and the other hasn’t. Then we can agree to use our LVs for each other’s good and then do a trade since it maximizes utility for eachother. Then I can paint more and he can sip

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Astronaut Dad

    Well let’s say I really like idk painting right. And I want to get another canvas or paint supplies or sum. Then my friend really like pints of activas. But I don’t, and he doesn’t like painting, but we both used our specified amount of LV towards whatever good we like, and the other hasn’t. Then we can agree to use our LVs for each other’s good and then do a trade since it maximizes utility for eachother. Then I can paint more and he can sip

    Why should your friend randomly buy a canvas if he doesn't paint

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    ARCADE GOON

    Why should your friend randomly buy a canvas if he doesn't paint

    Cause he can trade it for a good he actually wants I.e. activas

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    deadacc

    the point is to inextricably link labour vouchers to the actual expropriated labour value a worker produces.

    plus w modern technology such as credit cards lol we can create a system of labour value payment that doesn't have the side effects of creating a black market or commodity markets

    paul cockshott and his book "Towards a New Socialism" goes into the economics of it

    !https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTl4b0w6mpk!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI01-5zhwdA

    How can you avoid people bartering goods unless you track the goods themselves

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    edited
    Astronaut Dad

    Cause he can trade it for a good he actually wants I.e. activas

    You mean Actavis oxycontin?

    Even if this were the case, the elimination of cash would eliminate most black-markets. You can't ever barter as efficiently as you could exchange money. This is why most criminals want their stuff in cash.

    If you avoid shortages you won't have much of a black market appearing anyway, except for illegal goods which exists in capitalism as well and is much worse when cash is around.

    Page 140 - 142 talks about black markets:

    users.wfu.edu/cottrell/socialism_book/new_socialism.pdf

  • Feb 8, 2022
    Lou

    What should I know about Peter Theil?

    everything you hear about George Soros is what Peter Thiel does for the right. that's basically the main thing you need to know; he's just a conservative Soros.
    The difference between Thiel and a lot of other Right Wingers though is that he isn't necessarily an actual cultural conesrvative per-se; his goal isn't to build a government like Orban's or something. His main intentions are not cultural but instead financial. There's a quote from Bannon which is something like "I'm a Leninist" (misinterpretation of Lenin from him but whatever), and Thiel draws a lot from that misinterptation; he's essentially a hyper-AnCap accelerationist who's philosophy is somewhere of a mixture between Mises, Yarvin (who he bankrolls), and Nick Land.
    Thiel got big off of Silicon Valley and the Tech Boom and became a billionaire off of expansive influence early on and lots of investments and involvement in Capital Firms and startups. He's probably one of the most historically significant people in tech. There isn't a ton of public information on him because he's a very reclusive person, he purposefully doesn't reveal much about him self or anything.

  • Feb 8, 2022
    ARCADE GOON

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/mandel/1967/intromet/index.htm

    Luv

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    ARCADE GOON

    1. They cannot circulate
    2. They expire upon use
    3. They expire if not used after a given amount of time
    4. No intetest rates or usury is possible
    5. You cannot make "money from money" anymore, you actually have to work for the wage
    6. No "passive income" can exist
    7. It only applies to the domestic consumer-to-business economy, not to the business-to-business economy
    8. They are digital, not physical, and tied to your name

    So no

    NFT labor voucher

  • Feb 8, 2022
    americana

    NFT labor voucher

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Astronaut Dad

    How can you avoid people bartering goods unless you track the goods themselves

    why would you be bartering goods when they only ever represent their true value w labor value and scarcity value already being calculated in the price

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    2 replies
    deadacc

    why would you be bartering goods when they only ever represent their true value w labor value and scarcity value already being calculated in the price

    Idk what if someone wanted more of one specific good eg art supplies or more instruments to play music with vs someone else who wanted more of spices or fabrics but your labour voucher only allows you to buy a certain number of any one good but allows you to buy more of other goods you DONT want but someone else would

  • Feb 8, 2022
    Astronaut Dad

    Idk what if someone wanted more of one specific good eg art supplies or more instruments to play music with vs someone else who wanted more of spices or fabrics but your labour voucher only allows you to buy a certain number of any one good but allows you to buy more of other goods you DONT want but someone else would

    why would it work like that ?

    its just value in a commodity form that circumvents the traditional problems associated with commodity forms. it wouldn't make any sense to allow it to have any of the problems you've mentioned cuz the whole point is to circumvent these issues.

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Astronaut Dad

    Idk what if someone wanted more of one specific good eg art supplies or more instruments to play music with vs someone else who wanted more of spices or fabrics but your labour voucher only allows you to buy a certain number of any one good but allows you to buy more of other goods you DONT want but someone else would

    The labor voucher is not the same as a ration, you could waste your entire paycheck on apples and oranges if you wanted. It's not about controlling rations, you can buy anything offered.

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    ARCADE GOON

    The labor voucher is not the same as a ration, you could waste your entire paycheck on apples and oranges if you wanted. It's not about controlling rations, you can buy anything offered.

    The chain initially started with you can only buy one bike

  • Feb 8, 2022
    Womanpuncher69

    nah once u use a labour voucher its done it cant be exchanged for anything else, you have a LV u use it on a bike the LV is no longer valid for you to use again or the place u got the bike from, you cant accumulate capital like with money.

    @ARCADE_GOON

  • Feb 8, 2022
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    1 reply
    Astronaut Dad

    The chain initially started with you can only buy one bike

    He means:

    You buy it

    The bike store doesn't get the LV like they would get cash, it just gets deleted

    With money the store would now own the money and be free to use it

    With LV it just disappears into thin air

  • Feb 8, 2022
    ARCADE GOON

    He means:

    You buy it

    The bike store doesn't get the LV like they would get cash, it just gets deleted

    With money the store would now own the money and be free to use it

    With LV it just disappears into thin air

    okay nvm then

  • Feb 9, 2022
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    1 reply

    Is it bad Marx and Engels writing is probably my least favorite to read out of the main heads of communisms. Mao and Lenin's writing is just so much more interesting to me.