Communism Thread

Page 752 of 1355
Reply
  • Aug 5, 2022
    Womanpuncher69

    my paris commune disagreement came from this passage

    In early 1967, militant Paris Commune rhetoric continued to be promi- nently espoused, as it had been since the beginning of the Cultural Revolu- tion.128 The new revolutionary committees, however, were hardly the “per- manent mass organizations” instituted by “a system of general elections” originally promised in the Sixteen Points.

    A general election system was established in the mass organization for them to pick their representative in the RC and they were be able to be recalled. The RC were also supposed to be transitionary so i don’t understand the critique of them being not permanent since that was never the goal of them.

    Also i don’t understand leaving out the Ainting incident since that what’s being Zhang Chunqiao into the fold who is an immensely important player in the Shanghai and basically the beginning of the power seizure in Shanghai.

    On the PLA part i guess i misunderstood him though i would like if he explained why the PLA ended up supporting the conservatives other than vagueness of who’s left ( which no doubt played a part) by showcasing how the PLA marshals were mostly against the cultural revolution like the meeting between Chen Boada and the marshals where they all just s*** on him and the CR.

    Though i’m not too harsh on the book i understand writing on the CR is hard as f*** do to how suppressed the history is in China about it and did enjoy the first chapter about the bloodline theory due to the previous piece i read on the CR it was a passing point due to it mainly focusing on Shanghai though very in depth.

    He elaborates that

    • 1) most regions were deemed not ready for an RC and had provisional RCs instead where the PLA was granted military dictatorship, it wasn't until late 68 that most provinces got real RCs but
    • 2) the three in one principle meant the PLA and Cadres had most of the power in these committees, especially the PLA for reasons he gets into, so even the regular regular RCs weren't that democratic. Only a few RCs had civilian chairs

    They were meant to be transitionary like you said but in effect there was a years long s***ty provisional phase to get to a years long s***ty transitional phase which gave way to nothing else. Sure there was supposed to be more than the RC to live up to Paris Commune ethos but the RC is all that was there to judge.

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply

    I also have no idea what the ainting incident is so i can't speak on his treatment of that sorry you keep mentioning it

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply
    Sir Real

    Any topic in particular you’re interested in? I got lots

    the Hu Jin Tao and Xi period, depoliticization, and it's relationship with Taiwan.

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply
    the reds

    I also have no idea what the ainting incident is so i can't speak on his treatment of that sorry you keep mentioning it

    yeah no worries that’s my biggest problem of the shanghai part in the book since it doesn’t mention it all basically summed up Workers (they would become the worker general headquarter) in a textile factory started making big character poster to criticize their treatment, went to the SMPC to talk to them, the SMPC tries to shut them down but fail and then fabricate a message from Zhou Enlai saying he’ll meet with the Workers in Bejing and then the SMPC split up the workers sent them to 5 different trains which would lead to 5 different locations and none of which were Bejing. The CCRG would send Zhao Chunqaio to investigate what happened and after he arrived he listened to the workers and pledged to help them. Omitting this from the story made it seem like Zhao just came in to take the glory of the Shanghai Commune. When he was their from day one and often helping and meditating between the rebel factions, even on the birth of the Shanghai Commune it almost fell into factional infighting if it wasn’t for Zhang saying that every organization would get a chance to be able to partake, it just these 20(?) are the founding orgs and rest will have a chance to join.

    From what i got from the the book with him mentioning like Geng saying that Zhao is usurping the Shanghai Commune or the that one rebel faction that started doubting everything and went into to Zhao family history and found links to the KMT but not mentioning how they were resolved made it seem like these factions were correct in their view of Zhao. Geng would later be expelled when everyone noticed he was bombarding Zhao but was real quiet about the SMPC he ended up having connections with the SMPC like when he wanted more armbands but the GWK couldn’t afford to give him more cause the SMPC still controlled the money he went to them. and with the rebel faction that would doubt everything, “the doubt everything” line was pushed by the conservative faction of the CPC to make it harder to concentrate attacks against the bourgeoisie headquarters i know quite few of em would end up self critique.

    On the doubt everything line being pushed by the conservative faction

    Marshal Ye Jianying, a conservative in the army and one of the main players in the coup d’etat of 1976, also asserted that “it should be permitted for people to doubt, boldly doubt and doubt everything.

  • Aug 5, 2022

    anting* incident i’ve been spelling it wrong the whole time …

  • Aug 5, 2022
    Womanpuncher69

    yeah no worries that’s my biggest problem of the shanghai part in the book since it doesn’t mention it all basically summed up Workers (they would become the worker general headquarter) in a textile factory started making big character poster to criticize their treatment, went to the SMPC to talk to them, the SMPC tries to shut them down but fail and then fabricate a message from Zhou Enlai saying he’ll meet with the Workers in Bejing and then the SMPC split up the workers sent them to 5 different trains which would lead to 5 different locations and none of which were Bejing. The CCRG would send Zhao Chunqaio to investigate what happened and after he arrived he listened to the workers and pledged to help them. Omitting this from the story made it seem like Zhao just came in to take the glory of the Shanghai Commune. When he was their from day one and often helping and meditating between the rebel factions, even on the birth of the Shanghai Commune it almost fell into factional infighting if it wasn’t for Zhang saying that every organization would get a chance to be able to partake, it just these 20(?) are the founding orgs and rest will have a chance to join.

    From what i got from the the book with him mentioning like Geng saying that Zhao is usurping the Shanghai Commune or the that one rebel faction that started doubting everything and went into to Zhao family history and found links to the KMT but not mentioning how they were resolved made it seem like these factions were correct in their view of Zhao. Geng would later be expelled when everyone noticed he was bombarding Zhao but was real quiet about the SMPC he ended up having connections with the SMPC like when he wanted more armbands but the GWK couldn’t afford to give him more cause the SMPC still controlled the money he went to them. and with the rebel faction that would doubt everything, “the doubt everything” line was pushed by the conservative faction of the CPC to make it harder to concentrate attacks against the bourgeoisie headquarters i know quite few of em would end up self critique.

    On the doubt everything line being pushed by the conservative faction

    Marshal Ye Jianying, a conservative in the army and one of the main players in the coup d’etat of 1976, also asserted that “it should be permitted for people to doubt, boldly doubt and doubt everything.

    Hmm he doesnt mention the Anting incident but he does mention workers being frustrated wjth attempts to meet Beijing officials (maybe the Anting incident was one of many similar episodes?), a December meeting where Zhang stated support with workers against local offifials, and an episode where Wang went to Beijing after the SMPC forged instructions from Zhou Enlai and Zhang told him not to support the SMPC motion which the WGHQ ended up supporting.

    The overall picture of Zhang/the CCRG being cautious or moderate in their support of the red guards seems to track though.

  • Aug 5, 2022
    Sir Real

    Semi related but Im going to Europe for the first time in a couple weeks and gonna visit the Communards Wall in Paris. Gonna be emotional as hell

    Visiting Soviet war memorial in Berlin was crayz

  • Aug 5, 2022

    Craziest part was how empty it was lol

    Everybody Ukraine brained rn so they don't wanna acknowledge the fact that they woulda been Nazis still if it wasn't for the Soviets

    I saw so many Ukraine flags there bro it was insane lmao

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    4 replies

  • Aug 5, 2022
    Scratchin Mamba

    question mark

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    2 replies

    I’m back

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply
    Sepah

    I’m back

    Pm

  • Aug 5, 2022
    Scratchin Mamba

    Pm

    Just did

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply
    Sepah

    I’m back

    LET'S GOOOOOO

  • Aug 5, 2022
    Scratchin Mamba

    this type of s*** is my favorite genre of infographic

    have you seen the one like “republicans are becoming more fascist” and the y axis was literally “% fascist” from 0 to 100

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply
    MrMudManMood

    LET'S GOOOOOO

    Can’t keep a real one down

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply

    @deadac follow back when you get the chance, wanted to PM you something funny from that Musk thread you made yesterday that I don't think you saw 😭

    Also I'm f***ing with that podcast, good looks on the link

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply
    Sepah

    Can’t keep a real one down

    Talk!!!

  • Aug 5, 2022
    MrMudManMood

    Talk!!!

    Click the link in my bio. Run a anti imperialist news channel on tele and instagram y’all would like it

  • Aug 5, 2022
    Scratchin Mamba

    The farther left on the map the more free you are

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply
    krishna bound
    https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1555312282011418631

    Traveling halfway across the globe to own the globalists

  • Aug 5, 2022
    p apollo

    Traveling halfway across the globe to own the globalists

    most ideologically consistent right winger

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    2 replies
    Lein

    the Hu Jin Tao and Xi period, depoliticization, and it's relationship with Taiwan.

    Ah

    Yeah post Deng I don’t got much for ya lol

  • Aug 5, 2022
    ·
    1 reply
    Sir Real

    Ah

    Yeah post Deng I don’t got much for ya lol

    Anything on what allowed the capitalist reforms to take place