Scratchin Mamba

4y

Robots might seem categorically different from other tools because they're so advanced, but the way they're involved in the production process isn't rly much different than other automating tools. Like a wheel is also something that takes over a task that would earlier need more human labor to perform, the same is true with robots. They also don't completely replace human labor, just a lot less. And the fact that it's only quantitatively different and not categorically different in that it itself becomes value producing variable capital is reflected in the continuing falling rate of profit that happens due to the fact that these proportionally higher investments in technology don't actually produce more value, but actually (relatively) less.

SEGA GOON

4y

What my mans said. As of now, it doesn't seem likely that robots can actually perform abstract labor themselves (if that happens we would have more problems than just capitalism collapsing). They are just powerful tools. Automation is not a recent invention, a farmer using oxen to till his fields is also using automation, a human driven tractor too, an automatic tractor too - the only thing that really changes is just how much more labor efficient it is. A robot still requires tons of human labor inputs, think of what is needed to even produce a single piece of metal, all the food produced for metalworkers and their houses, the geologists finding ore, the mining, the refining, the transportation, the wholesale etc. - you can go into further iterations and find more and more labor behind a product

CrippledGod

4y

1. What's your definition of abstract labor?

2. The need for human input in automation is reducing literally by the day, with the end goal being its ultimate removal. At some point in the not-too-distant future, all the processes needed to make that piece of metal will be automated: discovery of the mine, drilling, extraction and manufacturing.

CrippledGod

4y

Could you explain what you mean by your past sentence? About increasing investment in technology leading to less value?

Scratchin Mamba

4y

I phrased it like a man that just woke up bc i did but i said (relatively) less value, meaning relatively less value to the amount of capital invested

This is because labor is what creates value, when relatively more capital is invested into constant capital (tools/robots whatever) compared to variable capital (labor) this means that this will lead to a lower rate of profit, and this is an empirical fact:

Scratchin Mamba

4y

One thing the rate of profit falling also explains is that "ENTREPRENEURS" have gotten progressively more GOOFY over time.

When it's harder to find an investment in the "real" economy u gotta look towards speculation to find a profitable investment. Prolly not a coincidence that it coincides with the crayz financialization of the economy either

Scratchin Mamba

4y

Imagine how SILLY these entrepreneurs are gonna get when the rate of profit is like 1%

SEGA GOON

4y

USA turned Europe into vassal states bc their profit rates were falling and they couldnt offset their losses by expanding in the 3rd world anymore since China occupies a lot of that market space

Scratchin Mamba

4y

One thing the rate of profit falling also explains is that "ENTREPRENEURS" have gotten progressively more GOOFY over time.

When it's harder to find an investment in the "real" economy u gotta look towards speculation to find a profitable investment. Prolly not a coincidence that it coincides with the crayz financialization of the economy either

Scratchin Mamba

4y

Fax but also just talking about people starting their own companies

I feel like in the past mfs were like im gonna open a bike store & get rich and it was a lot more likely to happen bc of the higher rate of profit. Now to get that same return on investment u gotta enter the speculative market, hence the SILLINESS

SEGA GOON

4y

You seriously overestimate the capabilities of AI if you think entire fields like geology could be automated. Furthermore, you seem to imply that AI will be able to program and design AI and robots. That is going into sci-fi territory.

Scratchin Mamba

4y

I phrased it like a man that just woke up bc i did but i said (relatively) less value, meaning relatively less value to the amount of capital invested

This is because labor is what creates value, when relatively more capital is invested into constant capital (tools/robots whatever) compared to variable capital (labor) this means that this will lead to a lower rate of profit, and this is an empirical fact:

CrippledGod

4y

That's the thing though, you only invest increasing capital into them until it works. For instance, you invest billions into fully automated driving, and when it works you only need to pay for maintenance (and maybe lawsuits).

Is there something I'm missing?

Scratchin Mamba

4y

One thing the rate of profit falling also explains is that "ENTREPRENEURS" have gotten progressively more GOOFY over time.

When it's harder to find an investment in the "real" economy u gotta look towards speculation to find a profitable investment. Prolly not a coincidence that it coincides with the crayz financialization of the economy either

Scratchin Mamba

4y

How does this account for or explain the falling rate of profit?

CrippledGod

4y

The rate of profit falling is irrelevant. If you use the common example where you have a capitalist setting up a company and the rate of profit falling due to depreciation of tools, the end result is still some amount of profit. It's hardly a critique of capitalism; it's the way the world works.

Scratchin Mamba

4y

How is the rate of profit irrelevant lmao

Profit is kinda what this whole capitalism thing is about yk

CrippledGod

4y

It's almost like you read theories proposed in the 60s and have failed to give it a modern context.

Have companies become more or less profitable in the past 10 years?

CrippledGod

4y

https://docs.replit.com/programming-ide/GhostWriter-FAQ

It's on the way. As long as you can break it into component parts, AI can do it.

SEGA GOON

4y

Literally less

CrippledGod

4y

It's almost like you read theories proposed in the 60s and have failed to give it a modern context.

Have companies become more or less profitable in the past 10 years?