plants

4y

i'll take the vaguely experimental treatment and it's known and unknown side effects that was released to protect the population after a lab leak before I just rawdog the lab leak itself no disrespect

WBW

4y

This is because anti vax isn’t the term you’re supposed to use for these. Anti vax implies you don’t believe in the effectiveness of vaccines. These are more experimental and have different effects on the body. Essentially we tested them on ourselves

SBMike

4y

OP dumb as bricks

YungSah

4y

See above, funnily enough stupid people like antivaxxers were right, but not because they were well informed but because of the opposite. Yet they were right

YungSah

4y

So coronavirii as you know have been around for ages, most likely you have had one in your life pre COVID

Common in younger children most of them cause mild respiratory symptoms

Some much more dangerous variants like mers and Sars have higher fatality rates

Predominantly the immune response against them is t cell based (aka cellular) not antibody (aka humoral)

This is a key point as mRNA vaccines are good at producing antibody responses but not so good at producing cellular ones

Most of the effects of COVID are not due to the virus itself but instead hyperactivation of the immune system similar to something called macrophage activation syndrome

This is why firstly, steroids are an excellent treatment as they settle down short term inflammation

There is a genetic basis to people that suffer more than others

For example East Asian and black people possess genes that can make them more susceptible to severe COVID but also low vitamin d (as vitamin d is an important regulator of immune function) predisposes severe COVID

Hence why in the northern hemisphere dark skinned people who are usually vit d deficient seemed to be hit harder

Faster forward from the catastrophic governmental responses to the outbreak and you have the vaccine developments

It was obvious from the start that mRNA vaccines would be plagued with side effects and whilst fast to make would likely no offer significant long term protection

This is partly because we have seen how mRNAs vaccines work against cancer and how they don't produce adequate t cell responses and how dendritic line driven mRNA vaccines cause autoimmune antibodies to be producing

As previously mentioned

This is also why Pfizer and moderna heavily played up their 99% effectiveness which was based largely on developing antibody responses

Secondly traditional immunity works by recognising multiple antigens presented

So virus comes into the body, first you activate something called the innate immune response

A broad immune mechanism that works by recognising a wide range of similar looking patterns and works to form a response quickly

But not that effectively

Then after time you develop an adaptive response

This is the antibody response and t cell response

These take much longer but are much more effective and give better long term protection

A naked mRNA vaccine is a single antigen

So when it comes in contact with the immune system a very specific response is made to that specific antigen which results in antibodies specific to that and only that

Virus mutates sufficiently which is what viruses do it's ineffective

Also because you aren't mounting a full immune responses t cell recruitment is poor

Contrast this to astrazeneca for example

Where they took mRNA and shoved it inside a modified adenovirus that can't replicate

Means that multiple antigens were presented

Whilst not all Corona specific

It means the body mounted a much more rounded immune response

So t cell responses were often larger than mRNA vaccines

Next the Pfizer idea was that the naked mRNA would neither migrate from the injection site, nor transform into dna

And since then there is ample proof that not only does it migrate but also the mRNA is capable of being translated back into dna which can then increase risks of things like liver cancer

Basically

What was needed was a proper trial

And 10-15 years of phase 4 follow up

What the government's of the west did

Was allow that experimentation to occur without proper informed consent and with an inability to sue the companies of something goes wrong

It's a real crapshot

And we have no idea how it'll turn out for the next 15-20 years

Fire Lord

4y

That’s like the second joke that’s gone over your head itt

plants

4y

lot of women, my wife included, experienced some pretty major disruption to their hormonal cycle after the vaccine. and it wasnt nowhere in any listed side effects until months later. so even mid-rollout they was still learning how it effects people at least to some degree.

considering how gnarly long covid can be and all that s*** it's a well safe bet to get jabbed but still, hard to talk about this stuff sometimes without ppl going nuts

lnstinct

4y

· edited

They Shipped it like a ye album smh

YungSah

4y

I had a long talk with a oncologist and immunology doctor, talking about the mRNA vaccine and its role in oncology and how it wasn't supposed to be used on this scale. I'm not anti vaxx and still support antibody vaccines. Using mRNA vaccines on the greater population shouldn't have happened and caused a silent uproar in the medical community.

I know this is a touchy subject but it was interesting hearing the opinions of medical professionals

plants

4y

lot of women, my wife included, experienced some pretty major disruption to their hormonal cycle after the vaccine. and it wasnt nowhere in any listed side effects until months later. so even mid-rollout they was still learning how it effects people at least to some degree.

considering how gnarly long covid can be and all that s*** it's a well safe bet to get jabbed but still, hard to talk about this stuff sometimes without ppl going nuts

COWBOY WAYNE

4y

Niggas hiding from the truth so they just make jokes. I wish I didn’t get vaxxed seeing all these heart issues being reported

str8dollaz

4y

Literally every vaccine mainly works via humoral immunity. This is basically the entire background of immunology. If your “oncology and immunology doctor” friend isn’t able to at least tell you the most basic of basic mechanisms through which vaccines work, than I strongly question his/her credentials.

Especially since I’ve never in my life came across a dual board certified oncologist and immunologist

safari

4y

did u ask the AI

COWBOY WAYNE

4y

Niggas hiding from the truth so they just make jokes. I wish I didn’t get vaxxed seeing all these heart issues being reported

plants

4y

lot of women, my wife included, experienced some pretty major disruption to their hormonal cycle after the vaccine. and it wasnt nowhere in any listed side effects until months later. so even mid-rollout they was still learning how it effects people at least to some degree.

considering how gnarly long covid can be and all that s*** it's a well safe bet to get jabbed but still, hard to talk about this stuff sometimes without ppl going nuts

COWBOY WAYNE

4y

Niggas hiding from the truth so they just make jokes. I wish I didn’t get vaxxed seeing all these heart issues being reported

NewCopeJustDropped

4y

People died from the virus though. Like never coming back died. So hormonal interruption as opposed to not living is a fair trade off in my estimation.