CrimsonArk

4y

Sub to r/COVID-19 (not r/coronavirus) and call it a day.

You’ll get all the updates you’ll need.

YungSah

4y

Not the doctors... The companies that sell the vaccines. As the doctor in this thread here pointed out theyre individuals and some hold this opinion some that one

YungSah

4y

What's there ?

CrimsonArk

4y

It collects pretty much all the most recent major studies /reports both peer-reviewed and non.

CrimsonArk

4y

Yeah, no s***. Everyone knows pharmaceutical companies are s***, they’re like every other corporate entity.

Thing is though, like pretty all medical procedures, there’s a risk. There are no catch all, risk-free solutions.

The mRNA vaccines absolutely justify their own existence because they’ve time and time and again have proven to be the most effective defense that we have.

Imagine where we’d be at if we had to depend solely on J&J, NOVAVAX etc.

They’re less effective at preventing serious illness (leading to hospitalizations, which means more crowded hospitals) and death, AND infection in the first place.

YungSah

4y

What's your point? The thing is that normally with medical procedures people can opt out without facing scrutiny. If I forced you to undergo hip surgery even though you didn't want to would you like that

CrimsonArk

4y

Because it’s a heavily politicized position that seldom comes from a place of reason and logic.

YungSah

4y

So coronavirii as you know have been around for ages, most likely you have had one in your life pre COVID

Common in younger children most of them cause mild respiratory symptoms

Some much more dangerous variants like mers and Sars have higher fatality rates

Predominantly the immune response against them is t cell based (aka cellular) not antibody (aka humoral)

This is a key point as mRNA vaccines are good at producing antibody responses but not so good at producing cellular ones

Most of the effects of COVID are not due to the virus itself but instead hyperactivation of the immune system similar to something called macrophage activation syndrome

This is why firstly, steroids are an excellent treatment as they settle down short term inflammation

There is a genetic basis to people that suffer more than others

For example East Asian and black people possess genes that can make them more susceptible to severe COVID but also low vitamin d (as vitamin d is an important regulator of immune function) predisposes severe COVID

Hence why in the northern hemisphere dark skinned people who are usually vit d deficient seemed to be hit harder

Faster forward from the catastrophic governmental responses to the outbreak and you have the vaccine developments

It was obvious from the start that mRNA vaccines would be plagued with side effects and whilst fast to make would likely no offer significant long term protection

This is partly because we have seen how mRNAs vaccines work against cancer and how they don't produce adequate t cell responses and how dendritic line driven mRNA vaccines cause autoimmune antibodies to be producing

As previously mentioned

This is also why Pfizer and moderna heavily played up their 99% effectiveness which was based largely on developing antibody responses

Secondly traditional immunity works by recognising multiple antigens presented

So virus comes into the body, first you activate something called the innate immune response

A broad immune mechanism that works by recognising a wide range of similar looking patterns and works to form a response quickly

But not that effectively

Then after time you develop an adaptive response

This is the antibody response and t cell response

These take much longer but are much more effective and give better long term protection

A naked mRNA vaccine is a single antigen

So when it comes in contact with the immune system a very specific response is made to that specific antigen which results in antibodies specific to that and only that

Virus mutates sufficiently which is what viruses do it's ineffective

Also because you aren't mounting a full immune responses t cell recruitment is poor

Contrast this to astrazeneca for example

Where they took mRNA and shoved it inside a modified adenovirus that can't replicate

Means that multiple antigens were presented

Whilst not all Corona specific

It means the body mounted a much more rounded immune response

So t cell responses were often larger than mRNA vaccines

Next the Pfizer idea was that the naked mRNA would neither migrate from the injection site, nor transform into dna

And since then there is ample proof that not only does it migrate but also the mRNA is capable of being translated back into dna which can then increase risks of things like liver cancer

Basically

What was needed was a proper trial

And 10-15 years of phase 4 follow up

What the government's of the west did

Was allow that experimentation to occur without proper informed consent and with an inability to sue the companies of something goes wrong

It's a real crapshot

And we have no idea how it'll turn out for the next 15-20 years

YungSah

4y

Yes I completely agree, and that's why it is hard to discuss reasonably. I repeat I am not anti vax I support all non mRNA vaccines or vaccines that have had time to be tested.

I have rheumatoid arthritis now and it's f***ing me up and that's why I talked to the doctor in the first place

hot pancakes

4y

chill i have health anxiety and am double vaxed and boosted now i’m constantly checking my symptoms since i read this thread

YungSah

4y

Yes I completely agree, and that's why it is hard to discuss reasonably. I repeat I am not anti vax I support all non mRNA vaccines or vaccines that have had time to be tested.

I have rheumatoid arthritis now and it's f***ing me up and that's why I talked to the doctor in the first place

Smoofer

4y

“That’s why it’s hard to discuss reasonably”

The thread title:
The anti vaxxers were right…

YungSah

4y

CMON man I did that on purpose to get people in here to talk lol

Smoofer

4y

Clickbait titles a known way to elicit reasonable discussion

CrimsonArk

4y

Yeah, no s***. Everyone knows pharmaceutical companies are s***, they’re like every other corporate entity.

Thing is though, like pretty all medical procedures, there’s a risk. There are no catch all, risk-free solutions.

The mRNA vaccines absolutely justify their own existence because they’ve time and time and again have proven to be the most effective defense that we have.

Imagine where we’d be at if we had to depend solely on J&J, NOVAVAX etc.

They’re less effective at preventing serious illness (leading to hospitalizations, which means more crowded hospitals) and death, AND infection in the first place.

YungSah

4y

Which one ?