Bill Ackman

5y

5 largest market cap companies are Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Facebook.

Explain to me how any of these companies would benefit from excluding black people? (Spoiler alert: they don’t, because it’s not beneficial.)

Cow

5y

Yes there is. Why? Because f*** you. That's why. Deal with it and deal with people like me existing. Now come to terms with your ideology being nonsense.

death_when

5y

yes yes currently we have loads of ppl that grew up to be like this

but in no way does that mean future generations have to raised under the same circumstances

Cow

5y

You're right here, fam, but it is wired hard into the culture of people. It is very hard to change that and it is why anarchism is just not viable. In 100 years? Maybe. I don't know.

THANOS

5y

@op spittin in the op and i agree, white leftists should absolutely be looked at under a microscope

"When you put the ideology you subscribe to over the end goal of tackling inequality, you are helping no one"

can you give me an example of this?

Cow

5y

I already explained why it would not be beneficial. Because black wealth is more powerful than racism to business right now.

But if it wasn't? If black people were an extreme minority of under 2%? Possibly. The market decides.

Bill Ackman

5y

i mean we’ve progressed socially as a society quite a bit over the years and the world economy has only gotten stronger

seems like your argument has no basis and is really a “what if”
scenario rooted in some leftist talking points that have no statistical merit

Cow

5y

I gave you an example of how the free market can cause racism. You have no argument against it. The market decides and if the market decides it wants to be racist then it is racist.

We progressed over the years due to policy. Regulations.

Synopsis

5y

Well first, those structures still exist. Because the ability to "benefit" from capitalism is largely dependent upon the situation you were born into, black people are largely cut off from those so called benefits due to generational racism. Even today, we see it in policing, home loans, environmental racism etc., and poverty rates, among other things that are too countless to name.

And equality of outcome is a ridiculously b******ized concept. First, what does it mean? everyone makes the same money and lives the same way? No. We are not looking for that because the mantra is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." What it should mean is, everyone is guaranteed a certain standard of living. where they aren't homeless, dont have to go without medical care, where they aren't forced to work for some bloodsucking capitalist for a s***ty wage. where everyone participates in a democratic process to have control over their labor and life.

Also it doesn't matter if you treat them with respect or treat them the same. The point of anti-racism is to realize the differences, recognize the structures that perpetuate those differences, and then figure out how we can dismantle those systems and provide people the justice they deserve based on the wrongs they faced.

jg33

5y

i guess the way I see it, the ability to benefit from capitalism has nothing to do with your race. Sure, black people have been marginalized for the majority of US history, but anyone can start off low and have a more difficult climb up the ladder.

Also, the use of the word "systems" is kinda extremely vague and non-specific. Not saying you mean it in this way, but people frequently blame "the systems" as a catch-all term, just throwing the term around meaninglessly as something to blame inequities on. People need to be more specific about what aspects of the system that they deem broken, and then be willing to entertain opposing views on how they can be solved (i.e., increase of govt involvement in markets vs. deregulation when feasible).

I also suppose that I just fundamentally disagree with you on the idea of "providing justice" based on historical wrongs. This isn't an eye for an eye thing, we are all living in a society that has made leaps and bounds in the past 225 years towards fulfilling it's founding values and ensuring that they apply to everyone. There is still a long way to go but I think it's painfully naive and dangerous to divide our society up based on intersectional groups/races/identities and craft policy based on subjective determinations of the amount of "privilege" someone has from it.

jg33

5y

white leftists are the most racist subset of people in America tbh

very frequently they view minorities or people who are "less privileged" as inherently inferior to them either consciously or subconsciously, or believe that these people are in need of them to be saviors

personally I am a slightly right-leaning 21 yr old but I was never thrilled about trump as an individual or ideologically honestly, but I couldn't bring myself to vote for Biden due to this philosophy that I just described being a consistent in the things his campaign did and said. There is an automatic assumption that non-white individuals are in need of white people to help them because we aren't smart enough or competent enough to have personal responsibility

jg33

5y

white leftists are the most racist subset of people in America tbh

very frequently they view minorities or people who are "less privileged" as inherently inferior to them either consciously or subconsciously, or believe that these people are in need of them to be saviors

personally I am a slightly right-leaning 21 yr old but I was never thrilled about trump as an individual or ideologically honestly, but I couldn't bring myself to vote for Biden due to this philosophy that I just described being a consistent in the things his campaign did and said. There is an automatic assumption that non-white individuals are in need of white people to help them because we aren't smart enough or competent enough to have personal responsibility

Synopsis

5y

All the facts prove your first statement wrong. Socioeconomic mobility is near nonexistent. And why is that? because in order to get capital, you need preexisting capital. How you think things work in theory under capitalism is not how they play out in reality. In reality, there is a small group of winners, the capitalist class. And they want to keep being the winners. So they use their influence to create a permanent underclass, pushing more and more people into becoming proletarians.

The overarching system is capitalism. Everything stems from it. I don't really care about opposing views on how to fix or solve these things, because those opposing views are either misguided and incapable of dealing with reality, or they are reactionary. Unless the system is brought down entirely it will continue to reproduce itself. Anyone who can sit here and still think s*** like deregulation is good, or that capitalism can solve capitalism is lying to themselves or simply looking to obfuscate on the issues.

And it is not about privilege lol. It is about the fact that certain groups of people have historically and presently been marginalized and pushed out. Get over this idea you have about the bill of rights and the founding values. This country was built on the backs of slaves and giving private property rights to a select few white elites.

jg33

5y

socioeconomic mobility surely exists, and it has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with culture/choices. Asian-Americans are a prime example of this.

you also haven't really provided any way in which capitalism is inherently racist, you've only presented your opinion, which is fine, but it's kinda lame to call everyone else misguided or incapable of dealing with reality when they just disagree with you, and happen to be on the side of an economic system that has led to having to the most free and equal society in the history of the world.

I nearly guarantee that you wouldn't tell me to "get over" the bill of rights if you actually had to grow up living the ideas you preach. My grandfather came to the US from Cuba and used to talk about this on the regular, and I think people need to be more cognizant that there are pros and cons to these things, it's not that I'm Incapable of dealing with reality

eye contact

5y

lol this is a disgusting post

Lu The Ruler

5y

And right-wingers like yourself are worse

Yall think racism died when slavery ended. And think that black people are in the current position they're in due to their incompetence or irresponsibility rather than the policies that had to be overturned or created in order to create equal opportunities for all.

allmygirlsdoyoga

5y

Didn’t read OP, but the right is literally filled with privileged whites who tell you that they’re revolutionaries.

jg33

5y

thanks for putting words in my mouth lol

racism obviously isn't dead, but you'd be hard pressed to find a way that our current society holds people down due to their race in by legal means, never mind blaming in on capitalism in 2021.
Presently, I do think that black people have to take some blame for the position that they are in currently. Black people as a whole were on an upward trajectory as far as socioeconomic status even under Jim Crow, before many values that got them there went out the window (i.e., nuclear family structure being a big one)

It is important to acknowledge how racism has gotten black people as a whole to their current position, but also important to acknowledge what has come from oppression and what has come from culture/choices. I mentioned this in a reply to synopsis, but Asian-Americans are a prime example of how culture/choices can lift a group out of oppression and into success in only a few generations.