Nov 6, 2022·1 reply
YE 2024Nigga what the f*** 😂
F*** pan-africanism, all respect to yall but I dont wanna be with yall niggas. I'm not african, I'm somali
Lmao yeah i already knew you don't wanna be african
- Nov 6, 2022Hollow
Still black
Bro this black stuff is reductive as hell
East africans have more in common with south asians and east asians for example than we do with west africans. Its just that euros decided to group us all under this stupid term and y'all still riding with it for some stupid reason
- Nov 6, 2022·1 replyScratchin Mamba
Lmao yeah i already knew you don't wanna be african
Bro u do understand that in a hypothetical pan-african state we would have to be sharing our land with kenyans and s*** right??
Like I'm not even mad at the horn being more integrated up to maybe sudan but I dont share a single thing with these other niggas
- Nov 6, 2022·1 replyYE 2024
Bro u do understand that in a hypothetical pan-african state we would have to be sharing our land with kenyans and s*** right??
Like I'm not even mad at the horn being more integrated up to maybe sudan but I dont share a single thing with these other niggas
Pan-Africanism is based on shared political and economic interests, not a shared culture.
Nov 6, 2022YE 2024Nigga what the f*** 😂
F*** pan-africanism, all respect to yall but I dont wanna be with yall niggas. I'm not african, I'm somali
Lol wow
- Nov 6, 2022
I'm not black I'm OJ
Nov 6, 2022·edited·1 reply
EinfinetI can understand but it still seems deeply flawed to me if there’s no engagement w the question of sovereignty, which takes on internal (governing citizens) and external (international recognition and communication). While Indigenous tribes in settler colonial regions have a deep history of having their sovereign rights undermined by the settler state, they do still enter into treaty discussions and have varied degrees of oversight to punish and/or integrate foreigners who enter their territories, depending on their constitutions and laws.
Of course, there’s a great deal of Black political scholarship that is deeply skeptical of sovereignty as a concept, but these scholars also aren’t usually invested in nationhood for themselves (or their imagined communities) per se. They do at least consider the concept though. In our current global economy, I don’t see how a nation could exist as anything outside of the name without sovereignty.
You know, I actually don’t really have much issue w this concept of nation within nations as described by this author. It’s certainly interesting. But I’m going to continue to push back on this perception of indigeneity due to the above points. I imagine a ‘nation within a nation’ approaching a tribal nation recognized as such by the global community, and attempting to discuss any number of relevant issues that might concern both groups. Doing so while failing to recognize the tribal community as a nation. Probably isn’t going to be a very productive meeting. Just my 2¢!
ig the best response i have is that the indigenous nations just dont have sovereignty materially. the reservations are not only geographically sparse, but also industrially sparse. this is why land back is important as a question of national development because without the material means to support a society there is no question of sovereignty.
cuz even though, for instance, many foreign countries "recognize" the indigenous people in America as "nations" this in no way materially grants them sovereignty. do indigenous people control the bureau of indian affairs? or their land that is constantly being used against their will? or their economic circumstances?
I think these are ultimately the real questions in sovereignty, and owning your own people to be slaves for another in a neocolonial "sovereign nation" is a semantic betrayal of what it means to have self-sovereignty and self-determination.
also the end point of this determination of national oppression is because it grants you the framework to question why does the Black Belt not have self-determination? which leads you to the true conflict here which is that these entire historical nations exist within the United States, and are functionally nations in and of themselves, however the entire nation is oppressed as a function of empire, and can bring people to see how empire (which in the current era is the monopoly capitalists) is the true enemy of national liberation.
obviously this is just my 2c as well and there is objectively a minute difference (if one at all in practice) between us haha
- Nov 6, 2022·1 replyScratchin Mamba
Pan-Africanism is based on shared political and economic interests, not a shared culture.
Yeah f*** all of that
We have zero shared political and economic interests with them, we legit never had. Only africans we share something with are maybe ethiopians and eritreans but even then im not sure wallahi the arabs are closer imo
- Nov 6, 2022·edited·1 replydeadacc
ig the best response i have is that the indigenous nations just dont have sovereignty materially. the reservations are not only geographically sparse, but also industrially sparse. this is why land back is important as a question of national development because without the material means to support a society there is no question of sovereignty.
cuz even though, for instance, many foreign countries "recognize" the indigenous people in America as "nations" this in no way materially grants them sovereignty. do indigenous people control the bureau of indian affairs? or their land that is constantly being used against their will? or their economic circumstances?
I think these are ultimately the real questions in sovereignty, and owning your own people to be slaves for another in a neocolonial "sovereign nation" is a semantic betrayal of what it means to have self-sovereignty and self-determination.
also the end point of this determination of national oppression is because it grants you the framework to question why does the Black Belt not have self-determination? which leads you to the true conflict here which is that these entire historical nations exist within the United States, and are functionally nations in and of themselves, however the entire nation is oppressed as a function of empire, and can bring people to see how empire (which in the current era is the monopoly capitalists) is the true enemy of national liberation.
obviously this is just my 2c as well and there is objectively a minute difference (if one at all in practice) between us haha
I feel like discussion of black identity and political mobility doesn’t have to be positioned in concert w discussions that delegitimate the political and cultural histories of other marginalized populations. Which is sorta ironic to take place given this thread’s original context. A lot of what I’m reading here feeds into common settler perceptions (which get continuously recirculated) of Indigenous folk as relegated to the past with no contemporary political activity, which isn’t true at all. I recommend either talking to Indigenous folk active in their tribes or reading some stuff by Indigenous historians, sociologists, political scientists, etc. One author, Leanne Simpson, even writes at length about Black and Indigenous struggle in concert across North America.
There are plenty of ways in which Indigenous people manage their own lands, and it’s going to vary by tribe. Each tribe has their own reservation land w elected officials and communities who manage their land. It’s not a Dakota Access Pipeline situate 24/7
I think a lot of what you said about Indigenous folk could also be applied to that specific Black belt example too
- Nov 6, 2022·1 replyEinfinet· edited
I feel like discussion of black identity and political mobility doesn’t have to be positioned in concert w discussions that delegitimate the political and cultural histories of other marginalized populations. Which is sorta ironic to take place given this thread’s original context. A lot of what I’m reading here feeds into common settler perceptions (which get continuously recirculated) of Indigenous folk as relegated to the past with no contemporary political activity, which isn’t true at all. I recommend either talking to Indigenous folk active in their tribes or reading some stuff by Indigenous historians, sociologists, political scientists, etc. One author, Leanne Simpson, even writes at length about Black and Indigenous struggle in concert across North America.
There are plenty of ways in which Indigenous people manage their own lands, and it’s going to vary by tribe. Each tribe has their own reservation land w elected officials and communities who manage their land. It’s not a Dakota Access Pipeline situate 24/7
I think a lot of what you said about Indigenous folk could also be applied to that specific Black belt example too
oh i hope that it didnt seem like i was diminishing the contemporary struggles of indigenous people. i regularly work with people who have worked with indigenous orgs and the people working for indigenous liberation only have my utmost support and respect.
i guess the point im trying to make is that the national project is unique to each, and requires unique a***yses in order to fully encapsulate the specific character of what needs to be done. the question of indigenous liberation is not non-analogous to the question of black liberation, and i genuinely hope that it did not seem that i was in any way trying to valorize one over the other.
ill def check Leanne Simpson out. do you have any recommendations for other literature?
Nov 6, 2022·2 repliesThis book addresses these complexities to some extent.
The contributors to Otherwise Worlds investigate the complex relationships between settler colonialism and anti-Blackness to explore the political possibilities that emerge from such inquiries. Pointing out that presumptions of solidarity, antagonism, or incommensurability between Black and Native communities are insufficient to understand the relationships between the groups, the volume's scholars, artists, and activists look to articulate new modes of living and organizing in the service of creating new futures. Among other topics, they examine the ontological status of Blackness and Indigeneity, possible forms of relationality between Black and Native communities, perspectives on Black and Indigenous sociality, and freeing the flesh from the constraints of violence and settler colonialism. Throughout the volume's essays, art, and interviews, the contributors carefully attend to alternative kinds of relationships between Black and Native communities that can lead toward liberation. In so doing, they critically point to the importance of Black and Indigenous conversations for formulating otherwise worlds.
- Nov 6, 2022
Granted im on my first read through still cause I'm not an academic it's kinda hard to read lmao
- Nov 6, 2022·1 replyMulder
@deadac @Einfinet
This book addresses these complexities to some extent.
The contributors to Otherwise Worlds investigate the complex relationships between settler colonialism and anti-Blackness to explore the political possibilities that emerge from such inquiries. Pointing out that presumptions of solidarity, antagonism, or incommensurability between Black and Native communities are insufficient to understand the relationships between the groups, the volume's scholars, artists, and activists look to articulate new modes of living and organizing in the service of creating new futures. Among other topics, they examine the ontological status of Blackness and Indigeneity, possible forms of relationality between Black and Native communities, perspectives on Black and Indigenous sociality, and freeing the flesh from the constraints of violence and settler colonialism. Throughout the volume's essays, art, and interviews, the contributors carefully attend to alternative kinds of relationships between Black and Native communities that can lead toward liberation. In so doing, they critically point to the importance of Black and Indigenous conversations for formulating otherwise worlds.
sweet this looks sick thank you
- Nov 6, 2022deadacc
sweet this looks sick thank you
'The Vel of Slavery' that I mentioned earlier is in the book as well.
- Nov 6, 2022·2 repliesMulder
@deadac @Einfinet
This book addresses these complexities to some extent.
The contributors to Otherwise Worlds investigate the complex relationships between settler colonialism and anti-Blackness to explore the political possibilities that emerge from such inquiries. Pointing out that presumptions of solidarity, antagonism, or incommensurability between Black and Native communities are insufficient to understand the relationships between the groups, the volume's scholars, artists, and activists look to articulate new modes of living and organizing in the service of creating new futures. Among other topics, they examine the ontological status of Blackness and Indigeneity, possible forms of relationality between Black and Native communities, perspectives on Black and Indigenous sociality, and freeing the flesh from the constraints of violence and settler colonialism. Throughout the volume's essays, art, and interviews, the contributors carefully attend to alternative kinds of relationships between Black and Native communities that can lead toward liberation. In so doing, they critically point to the importance of Black and Indigenous conversations for formulating otherwise worlds.
You know I’m sure that book is great given the many contributors and I am a great fan of Tiffany King’s scholarship. I just never read it bc Andrea Smith is a pretendian and I wish King took up this great project idea with someone else 🥲 Jared Sexton’s essay in the book is definitely related to what we were discussing itt
- Nov 6, 2022Einfinet
You know I’m sure that book is great given the many contributors and I am a great fan of Tiffany King’s scholarship. I just never read it bc Andrea Smith is a pretendian and I wish King took up this great project idea with someone else 🥲 Jared Sexton’s essay in the book is definitely related to what we were discussing itt
Yeah I haven't read her works atp since some Native mutuals warned me about that some time ago.
She shouldn't have been included lol
- Nov 6, 2022·1 reply
pretendian is a crazy expression
- Nov 6, 2022·1 replydeadacc
oh i hope that it didnt seem like i was diminishing the contemporary struggles of indigenous people. i regularly work with people who have worked with indigenous orgs and the people working for indigenous liberation only have my utmost support and respect.
i guess the point im trying to make is that the national project is unique to each, and requires unique a***yses in order to fully encapsulate the specific character of what needs to be done. the question of indigenous liberation is not non-analogous to the question of black liberation, and i genuinely hope that it did not seem that i was in any way trying to valorize one over the other.
ill def check Leanne Simpson out. do you have any recommendations for other literature?
Nick Este’s Our History is the Future is great for a historical survey that is densely researched while clearly written. Glen Sean Coulthard’s Red Skins White Mask is really interesting because he shows clear interest in Fanon’s discussions of colonialism as they can be applied to his views of indigeneity in Canada. So he’s not American but it’s still a strong study! He also says a lot about politics of recognition and what marginalized populations can do when their political needs aren’t being met by the state
- Nov 6, 2022Einfinet
You know I’m sure that book is great given the many contributors and I am a great fan of Tiffany King’s scholarship. I just never read it bc Andrea Smith is a pretendian and I wish King took up this great project idea with someone else 🥲 Jared Sexton’s essay in the book is definitely related to what we were discussing itt
what the f*** - Nov 6, 2022·1 replyEinfinet
Nick Este’s Our History is the Future is great for a historical survey that is densely researched while clearly written. Glen Sean Coulthard’s Red Skins White Mask is really interesting because he shows clear interest in Fanon’s discussions of colonialism as they can be applied to his views of indigeneity in Canada. So he’s not American but it’s still a strong study! He also says a lot about politics of recognition and what marginalized populations can do when their political needs aren’t being met by the state
hmm might have to check out red skins white masks since im canadian ive read wretched of earth, should i read black skins white masks before red skins white masks?
- Nov 6, 2022Womanpuncher69
pretendian is a crazy expression
lmao i know fr i heard it the other day for the first time and was like wow this racism s*** has levels.
- Nov 6, 2022·1 replyYE 2024
Nigga what the f*** 😂
F*** pan-africanism, all respect to yall but I dont wanna be with yall niggas. I'm not african, I'm somali
LMAO NIGGA WE ARE FROM THE SAME MOTHERLAND. YOU ARE AFRICAN.
Somali niggas be thinking they Dominican when it comes to Africa.
- Nov 6, 2022
interested in black skin white masks anyway just to see Fanon play around with Hegelian concepts tho
- Nov 6, 2022·1 replyYE 2024
Yeah f*** all of that
We have zero shared political and economic interests with them, we legit never had. Only africans we share something with are maybe ethiopians and eritreans but even then im not sure wallahi the arabs are closer imo
At the end of the day, white people still look at us like a lower and separated class of people. We all have bonds that tie us together and that’s settler-colonial exploitation of the past 400 years. Africans have an intrinsic tie to one another as brothers, not only genetically but identity-wise as well
- Nov 6, 2022·3 repliesVA7a
LMAO NIGGA WE ARE FROM THE SAME MOTHERLAND. YOU ARE AFRICAN.
Somali niggas be thinking they Dominican when it comes to Africa.
We are not from the same anything nigga, brits came and made yall believe we were the same tf
We straight up see yall and koreans in the same way, ur as close to us as them bro