He's literally referencing his retirement all over the album with bars like

"I drop the BLACK ALBUM and I BACK OUTED as the best rapper alive niggas ask about me"

and the entire marketing around it was him leaving hence s*** like the "Fade To Black" concert

To say that the Black Album wasn't built around Jay's retirement is just false. I was there. Which is why it such a big deal when he came outta retirement in 06 to beef with Cam

"Who are these people who think MBDTF's album experience doesn't hinge on an investment in Kanye's personal life?"

OP is literally telling me that it doesn't a few posts above you man lol

I know lol we're all talking civilly here it's a nice change of pace even if me you and @op are coming from different angles with it I appreciate niggas not namecalling and s***

"People said the album repaired his image with the album because he delivered good music like they wanted him to"

Yes, but we both agree here that MBDTF was his comeback album right? Like his response to all the controversy and s*** surrounding his name?

If so then it kinda hinges on his personal struggle lol

That's what I mean, it's not like Ye just chose to randomly drop a good album there was a whole lot riding on it

Kanye has literally called MBDTF his "apology album" he knows what it was lol

Sega be bringing the vibes back

Any nigga you can civilly disagree with in discussion good with me. Hopefully the 2 of y'all are enjoying y'all's holiday

Merry Christmas my guy

It's a comeback at the time in a sense
Since he did something so crazy that Obama & most of the world called him a Jacka*s
Thus he wants to maintain his stature by winning fans over again
'Alright let me try my best to make the most undeniable album ever' but it doesn't impact the listening experience in a vacuum
You only actively become aware of that context via outside influences

But for someone who hears that album 2 years later, they don't feel the context of 'this is a comeback'
They just hear the album, there's no added layer

If a tree was ripped out of the ground & the hole was paved over, you wouldn't know a tree used to be there unless someone told you

Deadass I come to this site to have fruitful, educated discussions from multiple perspectives I wouldn’t even engage in the mudslinging foolishness these niggas don’t mean that much to me lol

I got put on to a lot of new s*** ITT and also feel a little bit more favorable towards Tyler despite not being totally convinced that my angle is unwarranted

Ok but when someone says an album is timeless or has aged well what does that have to do with the mythos?

I heard albums like Purple Rain and SITKOL long after they’re released and loved them before diving into the lore. I got why they’re renowned purely off the music alone

Kanye is literally rapping about Obama insulting him on the lead single to Power though.

This is the third verse on Power

"Colin Powells, Austin Powers
Lost in translation with a whole f***in' nation
They say I was the abomination of Obama's nation
Well that's a pretty bad way to start the conversation"

Second verse of Gorgeous

"Is hip-hop just a euphemism for a new religion?
The soul music of the slaves that the youth is missing
But this is more than just my road to redemption
Malcolm West had the whole nation standing at attention
As long as I'm in Polo smiling, they think they got me
But they'd try to crack me if they ever see a Black me
I thought I chose a field where they couldn't sack me
If a nigga ain't shootin' a jumpshot, runnin' a track meet"

How do people not hear these lyrics and infer that some s*** was going on with Kanye at the time if he's name dropping the president and s*** feel me

Deadass this might be the only Tyler criticism thread where the OP was at least engaging in good faith. When CMIYGL dropped it was just constant stupid s***

I was considering deleting or at the very least abandoning the thread when niggas was getting extra personal in here LOL

Strangers shouldn’t have you out your body like that especially when everyone on this site is an audiophile obsessed with discourse that the average person don’t give nearly as much thought to

How many people are listening to each line & dissecting the content of them?

Why are hooks & choruses usually the most impactful part of music? Because people aren't dissecting every line

A whole bunch of 90s rappers had 5 Percent Nation (Nations Of Gods & Earths) references all over their whole albums and yet the majority of folks don't even know that

If someone 'Five-Percent' to the average 36 Chambers listener, they wouldn't even know those lyrical themes are present all over the album

The standard listening experience to any project in an album (assuming it isn't overbearing or hacky) doesn't have to be impacted by outside influence

Would The Big Day album be better received if every listener was more familiar with his wife & their marriage? You tell me

Doechii mentions Tik-Tok all over the first half of her mixtape, does my listening experience get dramatically impacted by knowledge/lack of knowledge of what Tik-Tok is? Will it impact it in the future if the Tik Tok ban happens and new listeners are unaware of Tik Tok?

Idk how active you were on this site during the time the Drake / Kendrick beef was going on but some niggas just dead used the beef as an excuse to go mask off and air out their grievances with one another without looking back.

So now any time one of em pop up in a thread it's like immediate smoke lol

I be reluctant to type either of their names in most threads now since folks get too in their feelings & start derailing

Doechii mentioning TikTok in bars and Kanye literally referencing public events people saw him go through at the time is not the same man lol

Neither is Kanye name dropping the leader of the free world at the time in comparison to WuTang's references to the 5 Percent Nation.

With that being said, I feel like if you're a Wu-Tang fan you know SOMETHING about the NGE just by how inescapable those themes are in their music

it's deadass why this thread is so long lmao if niggas wasnt arguing it would prob be 30 pages lmao

Consider a song like Hey Ya!

It’s diamond and went #1 yet the whole message of the song was that people don’t care about the message as long as they can have a good time with the music

Can we mutually agree that despite his message, he still managed to have historical success yet Andre was able to stay within his artistry while resonating with the average listener that definitely didn’t care about the backstory whatsoever?

I do agree that Tyler will probably not have any songs that stand the test of time and get much play 20 years from now. He will continue to make music and grow as an artist and I’m sure/hope he will gain some massive hits in the future but currently he really doesn’t have a major hit. His potential is ridiculous he just needs to have more hands on in the process, we all know he wants to make mainstream hits he just needs some help

Yup

I been observing this site from time to time without making an account since og KTT I believe I tapped in around TLOP rollout times

I intentionally refrained from engaging because of the sheer amount of stupidity flying back and forth idk why they do it on here when they could get way more engagement on Twitter

808s had multiple massive hit songs even if it was a major departure from his work prior. Tyler really only has Yonkers, see you again, wusyaname & earthquake and none of those come close to a love lockdown or heartless. Kanye never missed at that point it was just a different type of project

I feel you are overestimating how people consume music
5 Percent isn't something most Wu-Tang folks are aware, even on this forum I don't think most folks would know Wu-Tang were 5%

There's people still listening to Kanye who completely ignore his actions 'I just listen to the music, I don't care about him as a person'

I feel like we might've gotten side tracked a little, my understanding of what OP might be suggesting has gotten abit clearer

"it’s just too busy of a f***ing song to listen to on a regular basis" what does this even mean man just listen to the goddamn song

You see it