It’s got a f*** ton going on and doesn’t flow well. I can see a shortened version being a major hit it just needed some fine tuning that it will never see

808s had massive hits but was also very polarizing don't leave that part out, people were mixed on it after the huge pop album Graduation was.

And yes, Tyler is never going to come close to a Love Lockdown or a Heartless but part of it is not just cuz of his music but also because the type of stardom Kanye had coming off Graduation and into 808s is hard to recreate in the years following.

Not to mention Tyler spent the latter half of the 2010s rehabbing his image after all the satanic edgelord s*** pushed people away from him

Don’t even know where to begin - just no.

People keep saying this s*** but every time I've seen Sticky in a public setting it rang off lol I keep saying this

Like we’re talking worlds apart here lol

Tyler doesn’t even have the luxury of time on his side given he’s been in the public eye for well over a decade

So many leagues above anything almost any other hip hop artist is doing

Spot on

It means that Tyler is a maximalist that unnecessarily bloated a song that would benefit more from less

"In its first week of sales, 808s & Heartbreak reached the number one spot on the US Billboard 200 with sales of 450,000 album-equivalent units, significantly underselling Graduation in spite of an extra day of sales amidst a holiday week. The following week, the album descended three places to number four on the chart and experienced a 69% sales decline, selling 142,000 units."

808s was still a successful album but looking at numbers with context doesn't tell the story.

Graduation sold 957k the first week compared to 808s 450k.

Clearly 808s was polarizing

I can see what you're saying with the Tyler thing abit more now
The idea that his personality & quirks can be overbearing in his writing

Obviously I'm sure you wouldn't say that it is the case for all of his work, but a song like Wilshire or Sorry Not Sorry might require a bit more investment from a listener

I love CORSO but that last verse & how it's so heavily tied into the theme & the story kinda ruins the true home run the song could've been

Frank says everything normal he's written about has been true, but he does it in a tasteful way that doesn't feel shoe-horned in, like it could feel with Tyler at times

!!!

A shortened and focused version would’ve went nuclear. The song is so fresh and unique there’s nothing stopping it but Tyler himself

And I feel like youre underselling MBDTF in it's relation to the subject matter.

Most of the album is quite literally about Kanye's life at that point, even if you try to "zone out" and not pay attention it's still an extremely personal album lol

Bro isn't Sticky like a #1 hit for Sexy Redd and didn't Chromakopia have a crazy run on billboard before Kendrick dropped? How did it not go nuclear

Pretty much

Tyler doesn’t do well at striking the balance between his strengths and his weaknesses consistently

Kanye himself is also a maximalist but still manages to typically focus on the essentials without going overboard

A lot of Tyler’s songs sound more like an amalgamation of ideas than a cohesive and pleasant listen

Most people listen to music to turn their brains off and just vibe on auto-pilot not hear super layered technical instrumentation bouncing everywhere with over-processed vocals on top

but it can still be enjoyed thoroughly from a sonic & song craft aspect without thinking about the story

and again I ask.. with songs like Earfquake, WusYaName, Sticky etc do you have to know the story to enjoy those songs

Sticky debuted at #10 and slid to #23 second week. At no point did it chart higher than St Chroma (the intro)

I hear you loud & clear
Still trying to phrase the concept in my head

How do I phrase this?

He’s gotten much better the last two albums and his storytelling has improved a ton. I think a lot of it boils down to him not experiencing much real life s***, he and his music are very immature (cmiygl & chromakopia you can tell he’s finally opening up and living a bit). He’s just now starting to talk about real relationships, mistakes and problems relatable to someone his age.

He gained a cult following at 17 and got rich at 19 and from what he says and shows he kept to himself and didn’t do too much mingling/living and it seems his growth was stunted from being a recluse of sorts, also he was focused on business and building his brand (which is extremely admirable and he has undeniably succeeded in doing). Each album has its fair share of personal content but it’s presented in such a childish way it gets hard to listen to repeatedly, at least for me. His last two projects he’s gotten much more relatable and has matured a ton and I think he’s finally opening up to different experiences which will only benefit him in the long run.

Overall he’s just a nerdy, edgy introverted extrovert and it’s been wonderful watching his journey, I truly believe he will die one of the most important figures of our time and he’s got a long way to go.

Lastly, I do think it’s hard to deny that he gets majority of his love through his personality and work ethic and not the product itself. Everyone listens to his work when it first drops, he’s got tons of acclaim and has done some incredible things with his music, his music just doesn’t really have the most legs. Flowerboy and Igor are both massive albums and he continues to sell tons of records within the first few weeks of his drops on everything post those records, his place in the conversation is undeniable I just hope he continues to grow and make more palatable music in the future

wow actually read @op and he kinda put some of my thoughts in a nice and nuanced way

i woulda def trolled a lil

My fault it was her first top 10

@op is a real nigga

It was polarizing as a project but the general public loved the hits and they were just as big if not bigger than the songs that came before it, mbdtf was the slam dunk for Kanye’s career and solidified him as hip hops best creative.

Tyler has yet to reach those mainstream highs when it comes to the music and you’re probably right it may not happen but he’s still so young. I truly believe he has it in him to become “the guy” he just has to get some outside help and live a bit more

We can acknowledge that Tyler is a legend but he hasn’t made the big leap and might never will (which is ok)