not exactly that but they def need validation and someone to say 'yes you can have that opinion and also maybe this and this one'

Sounds kinda like bruh got this take from Noz

“Well to provide a little context - I wrote that subtweet in response to a mess of folks on my twitter timeline who were taking great pleasure in the fact that Cole’s record was coming so close to matching the sales of Kanye’s Yeezus. This is sort of understandable - Kanye’s a natural heel and he works pretty hard to invoke the wrath of the masses. But come the fukk on thinking people, for better or worse he made a very ambitious album and has a bunch of squares banging acid squelches and metallic shard bursts while scratching their heads. It might only be subversive as a means to amplify Kanye’s ego, but at least it’s subversive. J. Cole made a regular ass mediocre rap record that only appeals to and appeases the mediocre people of the world.

And I do mean mediocre in the most literal sense. I don’t think Cole’s garbage or anything. Dude can rap okay as far as rapping humans go. If he were in a cipher on a corner or in a dorm room or at an open mic or whatever he’d surely evoke the “oh cool, rapping” response that such activities exist to evoke. That old rap rap raprap / rap ra rap rap approach can go a long way in certain social situations. But great rappers and rap stars have historically been expected to transcend that.

I mean this guy is supposed to be a great lyricist, a compelling writer, The Nas Of Our Time but nobody seems to notice that he failed to absorb the most (only?) compelling aspect of Nas’ style - that project window vision. Dude is wholly incapable of seeing outside of himself. Literally every idea on Born Sinner is I / me / my on some elementary school essay shyt. His subjects exist only as one dimensional props for him to hang his own personality and narratives on.

The “Art Of Storytelling” beat jack on “Land Of The Snakes” is perfect because it opens Cole up to such a bold contrast against the Outkast original. Sasha Thumper was a fully formed human, one with hopes and fears and slumber parties. She even exits the scene and lives an entire life outside of Andre’s verse. The women of “Snakes" and elsewhere on BS are set pieces. They have no names, no stories, no personalities, no specific characteristics. It’s just “this bytch,” “some hoes” and endless “she”s. Sometimes they talk at him like wamp wamp wamp wamp but that’s where it stops. I’m sure someone could extract an intense gender politics thinkpiece out of this but it’s not just women either. He does the same thing with his family, with physical spaces, even with his own heroes (On “Let Nas Down” Cole makes no specific case for Nas’ talents or appeal, he just talks about shaking dude’s hand and hanging posters on the wall.) It’s flat narcissism and it’s definitely not good writing. Good writing requires a panoramic worldview.

And I can hear you little frutflies spitting out cheetoh dust onto your keyboard and filling my ask box with baahh but Chief Keef and Migos can write? questions. No, of course not. Those guys fukking suck at traditional rhyme writing when compared to Cole’s ample mediocrity. But their goals are very different. They redirect the effort that they would’ve put into pure lyricism elsewhere - into delivery, into structure, into intensity, into flows, into adlibs, into hooks, into sonics. This is perfectly fine. Writing (“lyricism”) isn’t everything in rap. I don’t even think it’s the most important thing. But if an artist is going to make it the focal point of their work - which is what Cole clearly aims to do - then they should be doing it better than he does. I mean not to go all old head on you but if someone is not at least striving to be as vivid as Nas or as emotive as Scarface or as imaginative as Posdnuos or as bugged out as Cam’ron then I’d be more comfortable if they were to just give up on writing entirely and make a thousand kewl grunt noises on their record.

I don’t know, maybe this is a generational thing - you young people sure are in love with yourselves and maybe you need stars who are equally self-obsessed - but as a writer it’s hard for me to sit back and call someone a good writer if their shyt is as insular and shallow as Cole’s. Wale suffers from this sort of narcissism and lightweight laziness too and you could pretty easily sub his middling ass new album into any paragraph here. These guys are stuck in their own heads and bouncing around cliches that they cribbed from played out Mount Rushmore rap legends like Nas and Jay. They see nothing beyond the mirror and do very little within this narrow perspective. They’re prisoners of their own realities and of the laws of language and it destroys me to think that anyone would consider them the great lyricists of our time. But hey most people don’t pay very much attention to words at all anymore so whatever.”

Idk that Reddit post is facts

Cole and Em are huge blind spots for KTT. KTT would have you believe these two are irrelevant, s***ty rappers with no respect lol

Rap writer hyperbole kills me sometimes, don’t even disagree with the core sentiment but fuck off trying to tell me “Sasha Thumper is a three-dimensional, fully realized literary character” lmao no she’s not at all, she’s a cardboard cutout that gets addicted to heroin

the f*** is nas wearing in that last photo lmbo

Nah he’s right

The story itself may be “fake” but it hits home when you know a Sasha Thumper irl. From a literary standpoint 3000 went into detail about the characters life thus making the story feel real

Not tryna sound corny but that type of imagination is what was missing from Cole version

Not a huge Cole fan but let's put things into perspective.

Cole basically did more with less compared to other rappers. Dude put out music with no major producers or musicians, stopped having features on his albums since 2014, has a limited social media presence, tops charts without making blatant pop music or having pop features, sold out tons of arenas, and all 5 of his albums are certified platinum.

And Cole can spit for real and he has a diversity of flows. Dude held his own with Kendrick on Black Friday and he's gotten praise from many of the OG's.

Lil Baby and Youngboy get gassed up but they can't do what Cole did. Streaming got ya'll thinking they bigger than Cole was but Cole sold real albums...no made up s***. My Turn and Top haven't really sold much in pure numbers and I doubt, when the pandemic's over, that they can headline an arena tour like Cole did.

I get it...Cole's no where near as artistic or creative as Kendrick and he's dissed Ye who influenced him. I get why he's put down here but he's a good rapper with an impressive run no matter what people say.

His music would be less boring if he had features

I’ve grown to accept Cole role in the game

He’s not the rapper I’m checking for 24/7. He’s not going over the top or doing the most unique s*** to get attention and that’s cool. Bruh just stay in his lane

That’s good to see for the next young nigga coming up that isn’t taking the trap route. His s*** really connect with people too

Y’all love talking s*** about j cole and claiming its “facts” but when I say one lil thing about Aubrey. I’m a “hater”

Never will understand someone preferring cole to kendrick whatsoever

yall obsessed with the same talks

Most of this site acknowledges Cole was a top 3 most popular rapper of the 2010s, I don’t think people are trying to argue hes not popular lol

More relatable than Compton Kenny
Appeals to women WAY more
Doesn’t go over heads

Both GOATS tho

Im from the hood and this is true.

Black and Hispanic women where I live were MUCH bigger fans of Cole and Wale as far as conscious rap goes than K Dot when all 3 were popping.

Tried to get them into Kendrick but most werent feeling him like that. Some did though and are big stans though.

-Thats person for person so sure
-I would never talk to a girl who likes Cole more than Kenrick, that might sound like a troll thing to say but that’d really be a deal breaker and it hasnt caused me any problems yet
-I don’t feel like most of Kendrick’s music is that hard to grasp onto, maybe TPAB

obsessed

Lol he has 4 #1 albums in a row, his last album is 2x platinum and his last album sold 400K 1st week

Not only is he an all time great, Literally you can count on one hand right now who can do what he does and he hardly ever has a popping single in rotation which makes his run all the more astounding

He is box office, and there haven't been many rappers EVER who have had the run Cole is having right now. Another example of how the internet and KTT do not reflect real life lol

He dropped the Warm up in 09

In 2018 he was selling 400K first week

Fall Off w/100% at least do that or close to it.

How many rappers EVER have had a run this long?

U gotta take on the task of converting them to Kendrick fans lol. It can be done u just gotta ease them into it. I've done it with a couple women

I don't think this thread is about numbers. More so his skillset as a rapper compared to his peers

His skill set is elite? Great songs, great raps, the people love them, I don't get it?

This s*** is incredibly subjective, but there's a resounding notion that he's an elite, all time great rapper lol

I like Cole and appreciate what he brings to the table. But I always felt like bruh could do better. None of his albums blew me away. I think a lot of fans of the genre feel the same way. He's a great guy and very relatable and I feel like that overshadows the quality of his music when people try to be subjective about it. Either way, I hope the fall off is that project I'm looking for it to be. I want him to go out with a bang